Performance in Different areas

[al baldwin]

David think it/s good that you share that experience. Was this female all a sudden being hunted with strang dogs & and a new owner? Dogs can actually be over broke, sometimes that is better than being broke in good company. My question is, did it take her time to trust her new surroundings? For sure I don/t have a pat answer for what you experienced. I do know Jerry Hatton told me he sold a female to another hunter and she refused to run a bob for the new owner. A friend of mine bought a dog, knew she did good on cat, had hunted with her & previous owner. That dog refused to hunt for him, said he saw a bob in the road & she refused to take it. I sold a dog once that looked like total cull to the buyer, I took the dog back, returned the money, I knew what she could do as a bobcat dog. Later sold that female to Wendell Smith, he had a very successful cat season with her. Wendell later sold her to Neal Westfall, years later Neal complimented me on doing such a good job with that hound, said she was good one and a pleasure to hunt. Just giving some experiences I have had or knew about. That does not prove anything about your situation. Al

[david]

Al, that is the only explanation that makes any sense to me. She was refusing to hunt, period. She eventually went, but like a dog that used to be a check dog and knows she is doing wrong. Again, this could be a refusal to hunt in an emotionally painful situation for her. That is why I am so on-board with CJ Clays experiment. All these variables will be removed. It will be the same dogs in the same truck with the same handler in a new bobcat environment.

It would be much easier for me to accept this explanation if we had not seen so many dogs moved to the great lakes area... good cat dogs that never again were responsible for catching a bobcat in the new environment.

[tman308]

I think a hounds determination may play a factor in it. My hounds are combo dogs and hunt 3 species. But one of my "bobcat" hounds who excelled in Montana doesn't do as well down here in Az my main hound does good everywhere I take him but he is much more willing to hammer out a hard track. David, I think breeding may have a lot to do with it. That dog does awesome on lion and bear down here. I'm with mike I think the bobcat smells the same from area to area but humidity may play a huge factor in how long the scent hangs around. Thanks for all the responses everyone's personal opinions and experiences are beneficial to me.

[slowandeasy]

Quote Mike : I have never hunted in Arizona but if Willie can put up with me for a week or so, I suspect I will get my butt kicked there and will complete my bucket list of challenging new areas.


Mike,


Just let me know when. As long as I am free with no plans we can try and make that happen. As far as getting your but kicked. Unless things change radically it won't be by anything I'm feeding. Besides we will just join the multitudes of honest hunters that get their but kicked regularly. I'm sure we wont be a in the minority.


Take care, Willie

[tman308]

Mike I will put up with you anytime.

[mike martell]

David

You are right about dogs used for more than one species....Mine like everything from mice to moose and a lynx is just another form of trash to my dogs, The light is always green vs. a good cat hunters pack that are run only on bobcats. I know you can break dogs off grizzly bear and they will run only black bears and I know guys who break their dogs off lions and run only bobcats so the answer to lynx vs. bobcats...They do smell different...Switch hitting dogs will keep you on your toes more as well...My advice on rigging would be as follows...If you are just getting started and want to catch bobcats by rigging....I would rig only bobcats. I can relate to what Robin Powell stated about if he had it to do over again if he would run Gray fox? No...

Travis and Willy
One day....I will load up and drive down....It would be fun to watch the Oregon dogs in your region and see how well it pans out....Humidity is a definite factor in scenting conditions. I still don't understand how you can take a good bobcat dog in one region and move to another region and not catch a bobcat...David would disagree with my next statement of saying, probably wasn't a top bobcat dog to begin with. I take all you guys at face value on what you say... but how do you defend a dog as being a top bobcat dog and the dog can't catch a bobcat in his new environment?...My problem is clear to me...I have a short attention span and hunting only bobcats gets old so I will never know the answer to this question.....I would be hard pressed to feed a straight bobcat dog for long....That would be like hunting in the same spot every time out....

The fun of hunting is looking at new challenges and areas and experience what hunting and life is really all about. You straight bobcat hunters know all too well you can spend a life time and never totally perfect the bobcat dog, so I know where that leaves me!...Here is what I know for sure...If it weren't for these dogs, I never would have met so many fine people.....

Take care guys!

Mike

[Dan McDonough]

I'm headed to AZ. for a family vacation. I'm trying to work out a cost effective way to bring at least one dog with on the flight. I don't know how easy it is to get away with stuffing an adult dog into one of those puppy crates but I'm going to try. I've started working out so that I won't appear to be leaning so far when I board the plane with a puppy carrier that's holding 40+ lbs of dog and is bulging. If they can overlook the worried look on the dogs face as it strains to draw a breath in it's cramped quarters, I think I might have this thing licked! I'll keep everyone posted.

[Dan McDonough]

Megan, I'm coming out to check out your dog power, get ready.

That looks like the type of country that dogs should stay away from by the way. There's not a round rock anywhere.

[tman308]

Thanks for the morning laugh, I gotta clean coffee off my wall!
Mike answer that and you will be able to tell us all. I've never bought a true bobcat dog, but I did buy a female who had been used for bobcat mainly and a few lions. I got her because of the amount of bobcat she had been on. Now in my country she is a great lion dog and even though she had never been on bear she excells at that. While in MT she did good on bobcat in the snow, but here in AZ even on snow she just doesn't seem to (want, smell, desire) them. With lion though she is doing great here. I've had her for 3 years now and we've been in this area over a year. That's what baffels me her performance changes from area to area. My male does great everywhere I've taken him and really only needs a couple days of travel recovery to hunt at his peak.
David, I have a pretty liberal bobcat season but it isn't year round so I hunt other species. I have an experiment in the works to try and make a straight bobcat dog out of my new pup, but he is a little young so we shall see. Great comments!

[mike martell]

Travis

I think dogs have tendencies to excel on certain game....Even though a dog has been on a pile of game, sometimes they just settle for one species that rings the bell....When switch hitting a dog, I strive to have a well rounded hound but I always come up short in one department or the other.....Your snow dog in Montana VS. Arizona has me baffled? I can see dogs not cutting it on the bare ground in the dry arid climate, seems the component most are looking for is a good snow to put the dog down on is because most dogs will perform on snow, not all but most....Very Interesting...Here is what I come to believe...Find a line of dogs bred to run nothing but bobcats and wired to do nothing but.... you will find you have fewer issues than most....Most guys are not willing to invest in the type of dog/pup bred for decades and most of the guess work has been removed. Even if they would make the investment? There are few available to the average guy.....We see this a lot here in Oregon....The line bred/programmed to excel on bobcat line of dogs seem to work no matter where they are put down...I would just dismiss your dog to being like one of mine....Guess it was a bear, lion or coon dog all along....

Dan

Keep us posted....You might need to see if you can sneak a laptop into jail and update your post!

Mike

[JTG]

Most men, horses and dogs will shut down in West Texas if they are not used to it. It’s rough country and everything will stick, bite or sting you and more often than not it’s hot as hell. Men, horses and dogs learn to avoid those types of plant’s but it takes time. The movie “No country for old men” has true meaning. The plant’s that do not stick or sting will make you feel like you are burning and it lasts for hours. In addition I know several people who have been snake bitten, one friend was bitten twice this year and for dogs it’s common.
The other thing different than most other states is, it’s harder to tree a lion than a bobcat in Texas. In Texas most of the ranchers will shoot a coyote in a New York minute, but will let bobcats walk unmolested. They will also will hammer feral hogs and wherever they drop, they stay and it’s great food for bobcats and they come back for days. In addition with a booming whitetail deer population the bobcats have plenty to eat. With a good food population the bobcat’s thrive and since the fur price in Texas is very low, they are for the most part left alone. With lions in Texas, it different than other states, lion’s will beat feet for long distances and since Texas has mostly private land, it throw’s additional setbacks.
JTG

[al baldwin]

[quote="JTG"]
The other thing different than most other states is, it’s harder to tree a lion than a bobcat in Texas. In Texas most of the ranchers will shoot a coyote in a New York minute, but will let bobcats walk unmolested.

Interesting, would you please expand on this, explain why? Thanks Al

[JTG]

In Texas most of the land is owned by individuals with very little National Forest, oppose to other states. Since individuals own the land they also manage it, however they see fit. Since you cannot hardly sell the fur from a Bobcat in Texas and many of the ranchers like to see them, they leave them alone. Some of the ranches have some really nice bucks and with deer feeders and water troughs spread throughout the ranch those things also benefit other species. These bucks are valuable and I know several ranchers that just let enough hunters, hunt to pay the taxes. On one man’s ranch that I hunt hounds on, his taxes are $40,000 a year and that just equals around seven deer. Coons eat at those feeders so the coons get culled, coyotes are hard on fawns so they get culled and that makes it easier for a hound to concentrate on cats. So in many areas of Texas there is a very high bobcat population and this may be hard to understand but in Texas you really have to know someone and for them to trust you or you own the land in order to hunt with hounds.
With Lions they cover way more ground in rougher country, mostly around the Big Bend area, accessible mostly by horseback. Starting on horseback before light and riding into the night is not uncommon hunting lions compared to bobcats that you can hunt riding around in a truck. Since Lions cover lot’s of ground they will also leave the ranch that you are hunting on so that in itself makes it much harder. In Texas it’s not a good idea to enter someone land without their permission so when you run into a fence it’s smart to stop. I saw a sign the other day that said “No Trespassing, I own a gun and a backhoe”

The other thing different than most other states is, it’s harder to tree a lion than a bobcat in Texas. In Texas most of the ranchers will shoot a coyote in a New York minute, but will let bobcats walk unmolested.

Interesting, would you please expand on this, explain why? Thanks Al

[tman308]

all that private ground and high fences would definitely be a major challenge in any kind of hound hunting I would think

[JTG]

Yes sir, that's right but there is some very good and nice places. What I like best is there not so many rules on private ranches and there is some very nice people. I hunt on the huge ranch own by a 76 year old retired jet fighter pilot. Another rancher told him about me and asked me to thin out coons at deer feeders. One side of his ranch backs up to wealthy family from NY, with over a hundred thousand acres. I told him that I like to hunt bobcats and from that day on he told the deer hunters "Do not shoot any cats" and he meant it and they knew it, he is a rough older guy. The ranch has mostly bobcats, but that year a nice tom was waiting at the deer feeders for deer. I had a older hound and his three pups about 14 months old, It was at night and we treed him twice in a tree about 15 feet, the hounds would climb the tree, fight with him and when I walked up he jumped, ran to a 8ft fence and from a sitting position jumped right over and on to the NY family ranch and that was the end of that.
My new friend left the light on at the ranch house so I could find my way back, cooked fajita’s from beef off his ranch, with fresh avocados, grown not far from the border and offered me his truck to go to town since I was pulling a stock trailer. This was the first day I met him.
In West Texas there is not so many high fences, at least not like in South Texas, it's just rough country.
JTG

all that private ground and high fences would definitely be a major challenge in any kind of hound hunting I would think