What genetic traits to watch out for ...

[Unreal_tk]

I am just curious on what traits that can comme out in a dog later in life that you need to beware of when making crosses. Medical or hunting.

A couple old timers here. One used to line bred his dogs some and his line died out because of liver problems that started later in life but as he bred it came earlier in the newer generations. I just want tosee what yall think of this as we've been seeing a lot of line breeding topics and those who do line breed how do you steer away from a problem like this.

I am not line breeding myself nor have I ever had a litter of pups. I find these dicussions more fruitful than reading books. BTW I saw someone say something about some ebooks and those would be great for me if I knew what to look for.

[mike martell]

[quote="Unreal_tk"] I just want tosee what yall think of this as we've been seeing a lot of line breeding topics and those who do line breed how do you steer away from a problem like this.

Thomas

Unless you have a crystal ball into the future there is no way to predict the outcome....Line breeding is the best plan for maintaining your genetics and most failures come from those compelled to sell puppies and not keep an entire litter close and cull accordingly. line bred or outcrossed, don't matter....I can give you a good example of a cross I made that didn't click for what ever reason( not bad hounds, just not my style) Both dam and sire are well above average hounds....

It was an outcross so my guess would be it would have possibly worked if line breeding were involved...One thing that I know for sure, once you sell or place them, you no longer control the outcome.

I will leave genetics and breeding to the experts....Look at all the good dogs out in the world and choose a line that best suits your needs, hunting area, style, game and buy it....

Mike

[fallriverwalker1]

TK I've been line breeding for at least 40 yrs I don't get on these sites about it . I don't sell dogs you have to be to ruthless for most of these people on here . if your not willing to cull don't do this , you also have to have a yard stick in wich to start with . there is way to many variables / it takes a long time to understand what faults come from wich side and who's the dominet jim

[al baldwin]

Jim I have very little experience line breeding, but the dogs I have seen that were line bred seem to have more health issues and shorter life spans than say breeding best to best & the closer line bred those seems to increase. Have you experienced such? Know you are not selling pups, so will be very honest with your reply. What line are you line breeding. Thanks Al

[fallriverwalker1]

al most of my dogs live to be about 13 yrs old my dogs came from al rennicks line my dad started with them back in the 60 's . I have made two outcrosses in 40 yrs the first was a bad move wont say what line / the second I'm still evulating after 15 yrs jim

[Henefer-hound-hunter]

I had a walker that at 7 years of age she was perfectly healthy and at 8 died of heart failure I asked my vet how that could of happened and what causes it. My vet is also a hound Hunter and he asked me if the dog was registered and I said yes, then he asked if she was inbred and I said I didn't know. He told me he got two black and tan littermate pups from an awesome line and they were inbred son to mother he said they were awesome dogs up until the one got heart failure and died at seven and the other at nine. He explained to me that the same reason for breeding that close to get the good hunting traits also brings a higher chance for bad genetic health traits. Got home looked at her papers sure enough she was inbred father to daughter. Would I buy another hound bred that close? Probably she was a damn good hunting dog, and everything is a chance with hounds.

Cameron

[JTG]

Yes Sir, Jim

The key is not the act of line-breeding, but selecting those offspring worthy of line-breeding. If you select the wrong one’s you will have health issues, along with other faults, but you would also have health issues and other faults with out-crosses. To select the proper offspring, they must have the proper appearance, temperament and mental faculties, and performance ability. They must be free of defects and serious faults, before they are candidates for breeding close.

In regards to the hounds and their pups, with the liver issues, I would check for outside influences first. (Overdoses of wormer, flea medication and other chemicals.)

TK I've been line breeding for at least 40 yrs I don't get on these sites about it . I don't sell dogs you have to be to ruthless for most of these people on here . if your not willing to cull don't do this , you also have to have a yard stick in wich to start with . there is way to many variables / it takes a long time to understand what faults come from wich side and who's the dominet jim

[Unreal_tk]

Thanks JTG. I will ask him about his treatments. Thanks for all the other input, please keep it coming.

[Jeff Eberle]

John, At what age do you make the call of that dog is ready for the breeding pen ?

[JTG]

Jeff,

The more you know about the ancestors on both sides the better, because if there is a known problem, you will have a general time-line when those issues will show up. If a problem does show up in one littermate and not another, use the littermate, without the problem and carry on. I usually wait, two or more years after both sides, have had a chance to reach their full potential, but everyone is different and has different views.
Several years ago,I had a pair of brothers, that were outstanding in everyway. One of the brothers was slightly smarter and slightly a better hunter, but anyone that I hunted with could not tell them apart and as a team, they were even better. I already had several good hounds and I did not need anymore at the time, so I waited. Well around seven, he got cancer and his brother, now 11 or 12 is the sire, to most of what I have now, so in the end it worked out, and it was just luck.
Jtg

[slowandeasy]

Jeff,


The other thing that most are unaware of. Is guys that are doing this generally keep entire litters. So they are taking care of both medical and performance problems on a regular basis. When we were doing our own little thing we had access to probably close to 1000 acres to let litters run loose on. And still would get calls 4 ta 10 miles away from pissed of people to come gather some up.

Even under these close to perfect conditions. It is almost impossible to be successful. If you have the time, money, and determination. It will eat your family's up, wives children mothers fathers ect.ect. The dogs basically are your god. And is probably the reason you can count on your fingers the ones that have done this type of breeding for more than 40 years and have fingers left over. This is why I simply chuckle when so many lay claim to such.

Not that you can't have knowledge. And possibly short cut your way to a couple of good litters. But you will have to know the dogs, and the ones you don't you will have to take the word from those you have the highest respect possible for as houndsmen. CAN'T JUST BE STORY TELLERS.



Take care, Willie`

[Geno]

Now if that isnt spot on willy i dont know what is! I can think of someone that sure could use that advice!!! Hope your getting some hunting in. I will be in your country in a couple weeks you might have to drag those old dogs out!

[slowandeasy]

Now if that isnt spot on willy i dont know what is! I can think of someone that sure could use that advice!!! Hope your getting some hunting in. I will be in your country in a couple weeks you might have to drag those old dogs out!

Gene,


Let me know, but you will be hunting with counterfeits. Would love to feed ya a big windy. And could probably get away with it in this country. But a guy has got to be able to look in the mirror. But ya never no we might run across an easy one. Like the kid in Angels In The Outfield said " IT COULD HAPPEN "


Take care, Willie

[JTG]

Yes Sir, Willie's right again.


The other thing that most are unaware of. Is guys that are doing this generally keep entire litters. So they are taking care of both medical and performance problems on a regular basis. When we were doing our own little thing we had access to probably close to 1000 acres to let litters run loose on. And still would get calls 4 ta 10 miles away from pissed of people to come gather some up.

Even under these close to perfect conditions. It is almost impossible to be successful. If you have the time, money, and determination. It will eat your family's up, wives children mothers fathers ect.ect. The dogs basically are your god. And is probably the reason you can count on your fingers the ones that have done this type of breeding for more than 40 years and have fingers left over. This is why I simply chuckle when so many lay claim to such.

Not that you can't have knowledge. And possibly short cut your way to a couple of good litters. But you will have to know the dogs, and the ones you don't you will have to take the word from those you have the highest respect possible for as houndsmen. CAN'T JUST BE STORY TELLERS.



Take care, Willie`[/quote]

[Jeff Eberle]

John and Willie I got one I'd like to hear from both of you on, (Now don't get me wrong I think in/line breeding is the way to go ) A friend of mine had a Walker bitch that it didn't matter what he bred her to hound or cur the little suckers hit the ground run cat ,bear, lion and fox (well above avg. dogs some superstars). What was it about her that made this so ? Don't know if it will play into your answer at all but he was told she was Loose Bruce bred just how close or if line bred on him is not know as far as how close she could of been she just died a week ago at 13 or 14yrs old so I'm pretty sure he didn't sire her. Why was she able to be crossed with so many different males with success ? ( John this is the one I pm'ed you about last week )