Large breed lion hound for wolf country??

[RockyMountainKangal]

I'm in Montana but grew up down south and only know about hog dogs, bird dogs and livestock dogs for the most part. I'm still pretty green in relation to hound dogs. I am working on a hound dog line that I may call the American Lion Hound. The base desire is a dog that can trail lions in wolf country. I'm sure my direction will change many times but as of now I'm looking to build a breed or maybe a type that will have the following traits...
1) Ground Scenting
2) Quiet
3) Large
4) Winter coat
5) Powerful
6) Endurance
7) Health
Intelligence
Obviously the list could go on much longer but these are some major ones
I would like a dog that can lion hunt
One that can trail silently(with a garmin), so as not to draw in the wolves
And have the size and viability that if they run into wolves they will stand half a chance
I have kangals which have pretty much all of the above covered accept #1.
I have a young dogo started on bobcats and he has shown amazing promise but as amazing as they are I feel they will still have 2 big drawbacks for my end goal.
One, from what I understand some are more into air scenting while then some like mine will be into ground scent but there isn't a real consistency there in a given litter.
Two, they are still short dogs. If a dogo and a wolf tangle it would be a decent match but I fear not during lion season when the snow is deep.
I am gearing my dogo for scenting, importing them from the original source in Argentina with ground scenting in mind while I select stock.
My kangal are amazingly powerful, smart, large, great coat, healthy, quiet like the dogo and you wouldn't believe how fast or far they could run if I told you. But they don't have the prey drive or scenting needed.
I guess my question is what large breed hound dogs exist and are obtainable that I could bring in to the program... That aren't riddled with health problems. All that I know of are the blue gascons. I have seen some of those that have the cold nose along with the size, bone, skull and muzzle to not take away much from the formidability of the end dog in a fight with a wolf. Are there any other large breed cold nosed hounds you can recommend?

Feedback and criticism welcome lol

[tman308]

Youre gonna have to breed in some nose power for your trailing problem. As far as the wolves it's not the one on one that you have to deal with. Its the pack of 10 100lb wolves swarming your hounds. One on One I would say a hound has a pretty good chance of making it out scathed but alive. It's those dang packs that kill the hounds!

[Henefer-hound-hunter]

This is a post i put in wolf killing dog hope it helps.

I've looked into all the big dogs that kill wolves Tibetan mastiff, and kangals have killed Russian wolves well over 100 lbs but the problem with them is their guard dogs they don't hunt they protect. Then you have the Irish wolf hound, and the deer hound they were known more to run down and bay up wolves and even the ones they killed, the dogs where in pack of 2, 3, or even more and the wolf was one under a 100lbs. I think if you put them all together added the dogo Argentino, drahthaar, Airedale, African Boerboel, Pittbull and a big hound for stamina, nose and pack hunting sense you would have the start to a wolf killing machine! Then put Kevlar vests, neck protector, and spiked collars on them to give them man made advantages! Make a dog pack stronger than a wolf pack. For all you that say it isn't possible it is! Yes it would take a ton of work and time but all dog breeds were made to serve a purpose or fix a problem. Some took hundreds of years but they DID IT! So we just need someone who will get the breeding started and all the rest of us pick up the slack in killing those bastards until the wolf killer exists! Wish I had the time and funds cause that guy will be a hero for sportsmen.

I think you should really look into the drahthaar, and airedale they are tuff gritty dogs that will scent. also look into the deer hound, and wolf hound for size, eyes, endurance, and fighting ability. plus all the breeds above have great coats. you will have to add hound for nose though.
GOOD LUCK!!!!

Cameron Adams

[RockyMountainKangal]

Thanks Tman. I raise about a dozen kangals in wolf country so I know what it takes against wolves.
Cameron I have already written here on another post about the drahtaar and deerhound. Now I worry about the deerhound as I can't find any breeders in the usa that hunt their dogs... all I can find are show dog kennels... I want go dogs not show dogs... pit bulls are not even close to dogos for what I need. The airedale is more of a sighthound and airscent hound not so much a cold nosed ground scenting dog. The wolfhound of today is just a recreation of the actual dogs that killed wolves. Plus they have horrible health and are sighthounds. The boerboel is just too far away from the end goal. The drathar is more of a bird dog, or hot nosed hound and too small. i really think a cold nosed hound with size would do the most good and cut out the most steps. All of those dogs have stuff to offer but bringing in all those lines and then the selective breeding would take decades.

Oh and I do run homemade wolf collars on all the dogs and the dogos get vests too. They pay off tremendously.. I would share picks of what happens when a coyote bites the spikes but its too graphic for the web. I will say they sure do their job of keeping the dog safe. Wolves and yotes usually go for the throat or neck, collars are a must...

Any other Giant cold nose dogs out there besides BigNBlues??

[TomJr]

Look in the majestic section under breed discussion forum. From what I gather they are bloodhound/coonhound crosses and have to be a certain size to be called majestic. Might be more to them than that but that's their origin.

[Henefer-hound-hunter]

Their is a Guy in northern California that has old line airedales that are big and they cold scent like hounds before they closed down hunting with dogs he used his airedales on cats and bears with no hounds they did it on there own truck to tree ill pm you his name and their is a breeder in Utah of drahthaars that do the same thing and there big dogs ill pm his name to you too. There are big bloodhounds, Black and tans, walkers, blueticks and ridge backs I'd look to Canadians they still like big hounds. My buddy had a male Duncan black and tan that was 115lbs in shape. There are some southern Utah Nance bred walkers that are up around 100lbs too.
Oh and i don't know the guys name but he breeds deer hounds for coyote dogs and i hear they are damn good at it. He is from southern California.
When you get a hunter line established ill buy one from ya.

Cameron Adams

[Henefer-hound-hunter]

Oh i forgot to say that i think your off to a great start with the dogo and kangal they are both bad ass breeds.

Cameron

[RockyMountainKangal]

Thanks Cameron
I have a friend here that runs GWP at his pheasant club. He gave me the name of a Drahtar guy in Utah as well, wonder if its the same people? I always wanted a ridgeback but they are sighthounds. My friend wants to add deerhound to his kangals to make a good coyote dog and it makes great sense but I'm more after cats in wolf country. Hence I want more scenting capability not sighthound. I will have to call the guy in Utah about the size of his dogs. I hear he has a long waiting list and the dogs are pricey. I am thinking to save time though, of buying some frozen semen. Those majestic dogs seem awesome but I would rather not add in all of that skin. Are the airedales silent?? Why is it that the Canadians like larger hounds and Americans seem to like smaller stuff?
Thanks for the compliment, I have already so much time and money into the kangals and dogo already that its nice to see some appreciation. I would just like to be able to run cats and know that my dogs have half a chance. A guy my friend hunts with lost 3 or 4 dog last year across the river form me to a pack of wolves. In that scenario its a bad place to be for the dogs as the wolf pack probably picks them off one by one. But he lost another hound last month to a lone wolf. In that scenario I feel the dog I'm trying to create would have held his own pretty good or had at least half a chance. When a wolf see's a similar size dog that isn't scared of him like most breeds would be, they tend to just disappear. I know the kangal and dogo will hold their own. Now I just need to bring in a dog that can add a cold nose but not subtract from size.
PS Your PM came in but I can't open it. Was directed to a page to update my messenger and when I clicked to download it a message popped up saying not compatible with Macs.. :/
If you have the time you could email me through my website. Just add .com to the end of my screen name.
Thanks

[Kflippen]

Look up American staghound they're geared toward coyote and a drive to kill although they're a sighthound they have good size and the ability to dispatch the female i have uses her nose well above what I've expected for her breed but she's still a pup just turned 10 months running walker hounds are you best bet on endurance the right lines have good fight and grit most of the hounds I'm mentioning ar gonna be found out west its what those guys do

But as mentioned a pack will always be trouble

Also look up lurchers a dogo staghound cross would be nice

http://www.californiacatchers.com/
Check his website out he has lurchers and dogos with a few other breeds

Forgot to mention the staghound should bring size my pups sire is 110# winter coat although some come slick and when I was researching them said no health problems due to being bred for performance only and they're not a recognized breed not recommended for adoption or pets due to their prey drive mine has already snatched up a beagle pup and a few chickens and ducks

Kenneth

[RockyMountainKangal]

thanks Kflip
I have seen calicatchers before. Also I have researched the staghounds. After some deep thoughts I dont think adding sighthound is really necessary. The dogo have tons of endurance. My kangals can cover over 50 miles per day and top speed of my 160 lb male was 40mph.
At first I wanted to add sighthound so the dog would be better at catching yotes but those dogs already exist as you have mentioned, lurchers. I dont think you can have one dog perfect more than one thing. The dogo is a jack of all trades. Therefore it is the master of nothing. I really would like a dog breed that can first master silently trailing lions in wolf country. Second be able to have a prayer against a wolf 1 on 1. Third would be catching coyotes, boars and everything else.
Right now I think the best road to reach that goal is with crossing a dogo and gascon or large bluetick or other hound. Then later on adding a touch of kangal. End result will be something along the lines of a 120# dog that is about 30". Built for power and endurance and that has the nose of a hound and the skull of a dogo/kangal.
Adding sighthound would be going too far in one direction. The kangals already have sighthound infused into them long ago. The Turkish Tazi. This is how the kangal is so fast. I think this is all the sighthound needed to chase cats and fight wolves. More attention needs to be paid to power, skull, bone and cold nose.
Still, Thanks for your input.
What I think I really need is to find a guy near me with Gascons or large Blueticks for stud.
Any leads??