Cold trails

[merlo_105]

How long are most of your cold trails in the dirt or the snow and does the length of one's cold trail make up your catch percentage. Shorter cold trails mean more cats put up or does it not matter whats your guys opinions...

[al baldwin]

Thinking back, the longer trail jobs on bobcat have been big toms in breeding season, for the most part have been short races after the jump. If the trailing is caused by a cat that keeps his distance, making it difficult for dogs to get a tight jump, have had some long days & no tree. Al

[twist]

The lenght of a cold trail has know factor on if a cat goes up quick or not its all in the jump as to how a cat goes up or gets caught. Andy

[1bludawg]

If you're hunting areas that have been hunted hard you'll probably have longer races.This is because a cat will start running when it hears the first dog open and that makes it difficult to get a good jump on the cat.I've always believed that cold nosed hounds,in areas that have few cats or trailing conditions are bad will catch you more cat .However if you live in a location that has lots of cats you might not catch as many because of time wasted on the old cold tracks.Years ago my ole Lady dog struck a cat at 8:30 in the morning,it turned out to be a long rough track..She made a huge circle and at 3 in the afternoon was crossing the road about a hundred yards from where she had struck the track .She then jumped the cat and treed it in less than 10 minutes .It was a big tom bobcat .We saw a lot of country that day.I love a cold nosed hound!

[dwalton]

For me bobcat hunting is cold trailing. There is a big difference of opinion as to what cold trailing is and difference as to where you hunt. In high populations as stated you may not want a cold trailer. In the cascades where there are fewer cats and larger home ranges if you don't have a dog that strikes old tracks and dogs that can cover ground fast on a cold track you will have poorer success. In the coast range with smaller home ranges you do not have to trail as far to get a cat jumped. The eastern or desert parts of Oregon and California are the same with larger home ranges. The brush in western Oregon, California and Washington it is far easier to trail a track then the open desert country. A cat cold trailed up to a jump in the day is a easier cat to tree than one started at night that is traveling as it hunts. Neither one is hard to tree with the right dog or dogs. There are many factors time of year, the area you hunt, time of day, type of dog you hunt and the ability of the dogs you hunt and the hunter himself that determine your success. Time and distance are the factors that determine your success, the most distance traveled in the shortest amount of time be it day or night Lion or bobcat. Each to their own, if you like it hunt it. Some of us expect to jump most of the tracks we strike and tree all of the bobs we jump. Dewey

[tstillwell]

Does anyone ever look at there gps to see what there dogs average speed is after they jump the cat? I did the other night in some tough ground it was 5.05 until they treed it was just wondering.

[al baldwin]

Cats that are dog wise enough to keep hounds trailing have been in this area as long as I have hunted & old timers told me those cats were here long before my time. I cannot recall any old hunter in this area ever telling me they were able to catch every jumped cat. Fact is, most told me when some one tells you that best take it with a grain of salt. I do realize some hounds cold trail much faster than others, owned a few such hounds & one in particular always stands out, however, he could not catch every cat. Could sure take you on some long hikes, best pay close attention, scattered his barks, covered ground fast & drew a bunch of praise from most who saw him work. I did not train that hound, bred by Tom Barnett & trained by Harold Middleton. Owned more than one silent cold trailer, they were able to surprise some cat and make short work of some jumped cats. But, found those silent dogs also failed on a real dog wise cat lots of times. Giving enough chances, those cats will make a mistake and get caught, in my experience.
Must say after reading Dewey/s post a few times, found it informing & interesting, had no idea cats had a larger range in the cascade than coast cats. Dewey commend you on that post. Little of subject, but have breeders here failed, don/t see many complete, balanced hounds, like that Barnett bred hound today in my experience? Kinda like MLB Pitchers, committee effort. Al

[merlo_105]

Al, From the stories I hear of the dogs then compared to the dogs now I would say some are failing. Im trying to put together a pack of dogs based on my terrain and the type of cats Im running. My cold trails aren't long I get by with medium nosed dogs that move a cold track fairly well but will blow things out when its jumped. I see where in some parts of the country you need the good cold trailer and in other parts your fine with out it. Where I have it tuff is running the same cats over and over. I pick a part every race and try to figure out what I need to fix the problem if the cat isnt caught. What type of dog traits work best for a cat that you cant get a good jump on and why is that?

[twist]

All cats for the most part that are cold trailed (reasonable amount of time that track was made) should end in a jump. Correct not all cats are caught. Cats not caught or jumped consistantly because of a cold trail, the dogs should be evaluated. Once jumped if the hound can run heads up and kick up a gear, for the most part equal more caught cats. Andy

[super white hunter]

lot of good stuff in here

[Flip]

A dog needs to close the gap between the start of any race and the animal. I've never had super cold nosed dogs but I have ran lots of jumped fox at a fast pace and when a dog starts a track he has to apply steady consistent pressure on the track faster and faster as he gets closer to the fox. If the dog started the fox as a cold track he should know when to pick his head up and start running the track by winding it. Some dogs trail a track that can be ran and take longer to get into this pace once the fox is jumped it's like the game of PAC man he can't let off the pressure or he will have to start over if the dog tries to run the track too fast for the conditions he will over run the track and make too many looses and wont ever catch the fox. Running these tracks over and over for hours at a time makes great Prestine track dogs. Some dogs swing wide on a ducking fox and some are very tight track dogs but one of each together makes an outstanding team.mixing strange dogs together is asking for trouble on a hard track cause it breaks a teams consintration and dogs get competitive amongst each other.a jumped fox can run for a long time and a good team can usually break him down and get check mate. A lot of cat races are similar to fox races and understanding the track and the team of dogs after the cat makes for a better hunter and more cat trees.i here people talk about how many dogs they run on a track. I think it's more important to have your dogs your hunting work together we have a few cats here that run like a fox.i had a cat race last year that was jumped ran for 2 1/2 hours and caught it on the ground with dogs that are used to running fast tracks.i think if more cat hunters ran fox they would make better dogs and the reason is most fox dogs arent cold trail type dogs and if u put more trailing type dogs in faster races u would shorten your trailing time cause a dog would drift a little more from a bad spot on a track and people would learn more about dogs they have that bable and don't move a track very fast.Most running dogs won't work for cat hunters but they will dam sure help a hunter to know when the trailing is over and the race has begun

[al baldwin]

Flip, nice to hear others opinions. When you say that cat was jumped for two & half hours, assume hounds must have been making looses for a cat to be able to run that long? I have on occasions spent that long & longer on a cat that got caught, but there were numerous looses, lots time trail job then another jump, over & over in in those type races. Also spent long times on those type that ended with the dogs on a road & seemly the track had evaporated, leaving hounds helpless & me scratching my head. Problem here has at times cats will start slipping along as soon as a hound barks, leaving very little scent. If a critter is wise enough to do that, difficult for the best hounds to pick up their head and run. Not to put running dogs down, but, have seen some old style, trail type, hounds excel on those type situations, when mixed in with running dog pack. Some dogs will in my opinion start drifting wide without the track & at times they look great, more often than not they can look bad. I always say, lots ground out there and only one small cat smell, makes it very easy to guess wrong. Coarse if they go silent difficult to know when a hound does so. That is what I liked about day time hunting able at times to see some of those things. I have reached the point where going to trees is less desirable at times, but, if one does not go look, at a tree or bay up, how can you be certain what the hounds ran? Thing is you could have ten experienced houndsmen witness the same race & most likely each will have a little different opinion, what each hound did in the race. Thanks Al

[Flip]

Al I had a friend of mine who has real nice cat and fox dog come over for a hunt this guy has real good cat dogs and we ran a race for 45 minutes with no looses and was a fast race and the dogs treed with out even missing a breath and when we went to the tree they had a cat. This guy was amazed that the cat could run like that with that kind of relentless pressure. I know what u mean about a cat not having the lungs to run but every once in a while we find one around here that can and really it's surprising. I'm no cat hunter but I do know a good fast track dog and that cat handled those dogs like a fox race.most cat races here are hit and miss like your describing untel they fall on him but every once in a while I will get after a all out runner. Your probably thinking the dogs make the race last longer but that's not the case.its something u would just have to witness. Most places cats don't run at all there just ahead of the dogs and are smart but our cats are small and kind of ratty and the brush is thick and the country is steep. My dogs won't trail a cat like most cat hunters but they do trail a little.they hunt hard free cast and usually come out running and catch quite a few fox on the ground.i have a couple tight track dogs that do good on a ducking varmint and the cats I'm talking about sure gave my dogs a run for there money.

[al baldwin]

Flip, thanks for reply. Have seen some of that steep brushy northern California terrain, easy to see how a cat could have the advantage and last for 45 minutes, with some very good hounds after him. Over time here, especially when hunting years ago with Tom Barnett/s hounds, can recall a few occasions listening to such races thinking this has to be a coyote or running bear. One in particular that stands out, took place on a rather warm fall evening, I had worked swing the day before, very tired, we had started before daybreak, and this was the last track of the day, on some very steep brushy terrain. Tom convinced me to get rest, he would go into that hole alone, when he returned, I ask what they had treed, he said a small bobcat, thinking he must be funning me. But, then he took a cat scalp from his pocket & tossed it under the seat. That was not a two & half race, but, long enough & such pace we both thought not a bobcat. Those dogs were conditioned for running. Those were the days. Al

[scrubrunner]

I don't think the length of the cold trail effects the whether you are going to catch that particular cat or not. Al and Flip have described bobcat hunting and races to a tee in the last few post. I've heard a lot of races for up to an hour without a lose here in my part of florida,believe me it's hard to hold your breath for an hour not wanting to miss the last bark and the catch. I find myself rooting for the cat to climb or pull something to get away but those kind of races are the ones I love. I have also had a lot of what Al described trail, run, lose, trail, run, lose but even those you don't know how it's going to end, with a caught cat or you scratching your head. Typical race here is 2or3 hours with loses like Al described. Might be shorter with better dogs!