Cat Numbers

[1bludawg]

JakeG,You're right,when the fur prices drop only the true houndsmen will be left. Ask everyone you know what they think about a lower limit .We might not accomplish anything but we can say we tried.Where are you located in Oregon? I enjoy talking to true sportsmen who aren't out to kill everything for a dollar bill.

[al baldwin]

For you guys that don't kill cats I can see how hard it would be to count them. For me I just count the hides. Sometimes I have to take off my shoes and call the kids in to have enough fingers and toes to count with. Nothing like a pile of hides at the end of the season. We had the most bobcats when we had no season and a bounty just maybe we would have more today if we would go back to that system. Dewey

Dewey glad you have those cats, experienced all the work and cost that go into catching & preparing hides for market. Hope you don/t take too bad a beating on the price. But, I think reason # one there were more cats when we had no closed season, was they were only worth four dollars each & probably only 5% of the people knew a bounty existed. Took my turn at killing cats for money, believe would have been more profitable spending my time elsewhere, but, was doing what I enjoyed at the time. Al

[dwalton]

Al there were more bobcats in the '50, 60 and 70 because of the habit. After the war we did a lot of logging clear cutting. The deer, beaver, bobcat and many other species did well because of it. For the habitat that we can hunt now I have seen far more bobcat sign this year than i have in several. I did not kill as many but did not hunt as much, my biggest take was in California which I did not have this year. On several days I saw 8 to 10 tracks a day on night old snow. On public land on the east as well as the west side. One caught on the ground and three more trees by 2:30 was my best day. I saw many female tracks with two young traveling with them on both sides. A good sign of a healthy population. I took far more toms then normal this year. I look forward to a good population with the mild winter and the take down for most people next year. Good hunting Dewey

[LarryBeggs]

There is plenty of good bobcat habitat on private ground on the coast that you can drive half the night in fresh snow in good weather and not find a cat track. Head for the big country( dug up roads on forest service land) that hasnt been logged in years and find cat tracks.True cat numbers recover quick in good habitat if there not being over harvested.BUT THEY ARE BEING OVER HARVESTED.I am as guilty of it as the next guy of killing a higher percentage of cats than I should.Though I dont catch as large of numbers as some of the guys on here.I here the same story from OSP and Fish and Wildlife about the elk .I elk hunt big country with no or little logging because that is where the elk are. Drive up snow peak main line east of Lebanon and tell me there are no clear cuts and logging. Not the elk there there was ten or fifteen years ago though . Fish and Wildlife dont want to admit they are doing a crappy job of managing our wildlife so they blame it on the habitat. Kill more cats there are fewer to run period.Dewey I know you catch the numbers of cats you say you do because I know guys that are doing the same. But tell me that habitat is the reason there are not the cats there was years ago and I will tell you you are wrong.I was hunting back in the 70s and 80s also. There were not as many straight cat hunters . Few guys hunted full time or near as hard as some of the cat hunters today. There are more good cat hunters crammed into a smaller amount of country that can be hunted. Not harvesting as high of a percentage as we did back then.But harvesting a lot more numbers out of a smaller area to hunt.

[1bludawg]

Putting our past differences aside is there any chance we might reach some consensus on what to do about the upcoming regulations on bobcat ? Leave as is :No Limit(west side)or reduce it?I'm willing to go with the majority but i think it should be reduced.

[LarryBeggs]

Reduce it. 1 tag 10 cats. longer pursuit seasons. everybody must take there own cats in to get tagged. Or something to make it harder for every one to hunt on there friends tag.

[al baldwin]

Reduce it. 1 tag 10 cats. longer pursuit seasons. everybody must take there own cats in to get tagged. Or something to make it harder for every one to hunt on there friends tag.

Larry & Robin I think that is a good idea, but willing to hear others. Al

[Tim Pittman]

Nothing to do with differences, I respect you guys, been at it along time and are a wealth of experience and knowledge.
We stand the chance of loosing our right to hunt cat, I couldn't support giving them[anyone] the extra ammo needed to cut our own throat.
I like many of you can't afford or want to have to drive all over the country to find a cat, and in my experience and opinion- I haven't had to do that, yet. I personally believe as long as the jaw data is supporting healthy numbers, leave it alone and all of us need to self manage areas the best we can.
When the state starts to worry, I would like to see a study done using one or more of the highest successful cat catching houndsmens available/willing to do this. This might really enlighten the truth which way it is.
Hiller also marveled at houndsmen wanting more things taken away when we cry about what we already lost. I believe we as cathunters/dogmen ought to step back and consider being sportsmen enough to walk away from small ones and kittens alike , try to harvest mature toms if that is what one is out to do.

[al baldwin]

Tim, there is a lot of merit in that post, some will figure a way around changes, should that happen. I would not be in favor of a study as you suggest, in my opinion would end up as the cougar studies, some getting to cat hunt all they like while being paid by the state, most getting less hunting season, creating more animosity among houndsmen. Sure ODF&W would ponce on that idea, as it would create extra money in their budgets. After working 36 year in a government job, can tell you I realized any thing that brought extra money to the budgets was pounced on by administrators, with not a lot of thought to how much it was needed. Al

[mark]

Tim is 100% right! We cant give anything up. I would love more pursuit and less kill but it would need to be set in stone for a long term basis.

How bout a 2 card limit at the regular price and any card after that charge 500 bucks a piece for them? Should eliminate the kill happy people and still allow for the guys that hunt for part of their income. I dont know of any business that it doesnt cost something to conduct the business.

Just something that is going through my head. Personally i dont care if i ever kill another cat but i dont want the right to so to be taken from others.

[1bludawg]

I don't want to give up anything,i want cat to hunt in the future.We have the increased pressure from our neighbors to the north and south.The high fur prices sure don't help.I just don't think our bobcat population can withstand the onslaught.I kinda like Larry's ideal but as Tim said if ODF&G numbers show the bobcat population is not in decline maybe that won't be necessary .The statistics i have here are 3 years old.313 houndsmen took 602 cat in western Oregon .On the east side 541 houndsmen took 885 cat.When we get this season's numbers we'll have a better idea of what's happening .

[LarryBeggs]

I dont think any of us like the Idea of giving an inch.But i dont trust the data and the "science" they throw out there. I trust what I see with my own eyes. It is human nature for people to want what is best for themselves.We are no different than ODFW. Hunters want more game to hunt .Wildlife management want a population that fits there management plan and brings in as much revenue as possible. Anti hunters dont want us out there. Power rules out. And guess where we are in the pecking order.Self management doesnt work because human nature again takes over. There are areas locals have done a good job with this but they are the exception. As soon as one of the antis that work within ODFW ( and there are many)has enough power ie. science to back there agenda we are done! Our only chance is to never let that science exist buy keeping the numbers as high as possible.We say we are sportsman and support tradition and hunting rights for our kids.Then do something counter to human nature and give an inch and maybe they can keep hunting a little longer.

[Tim Pittman]

Have talked to several biologists over the last few years, all have said western is healthy, eastern is questionable in some areas. But here is another view for all of us to consider. There is a small area that I love to hunt[ I've posted about it for several years] if ya leave the females and take the toms[especially the bigger ones] the population is strong from year to year, have seen more kittens there in the last 2 years than ever in the last 6 years.
The local biologist knows I take at least 10 or so cats there a year, can count on one hand in a years time you can't get multiple strikes in that area everytime you go there. Yet he gets complaints about some local guys telling him there are no cats there. I've offered for them to ride along and they could see for themselves. What I'm saying is, its possible to drive through that country on poor days or bad conditions and get that picture, but keep hunting it and ones mind would be changed. Kinda like what you said Larry about the snow in the coast range and not finding tracks. I can experience the same thing in this honey hole, and know cats are there, not crossing roads as usual etc.
Al your right about government , we probably all agree on that!! But have not found another way to put to rest this theory on cat shortages. Not to say after a area is overharvested it is not affected for a time, but cats filter back in to good habitat, after the taking of previous cats, they are forced too they all can't live behind the lock gates.
Robin I hear what your saying,about pressure north/south, its the very concern I have about being careful on what we are asking for. But has to be some kinda of resolution to this without hurting ourselves in the process. We need the science numbers to help us either way before they take it away for any reason!!!

[mike martell]

Comments not suited for open forum, been deleted.

Mike

[Unreal_tk]

A good friend of mine whose a trapper. He's trapped this one canyon for years with other trappers in it.. One year not one single cat crossed the road... that any hound guy I know of found. But the trappers did really well. This is in snow country. Sometimes a guy needs to get out and check good locations to find those tracks and not sit idle in a truck.