Brand new to hounds(In AZ)

[WestonAZ]

Hello, my name is Weston, I'm an avid bow hunter and predator caller from Tucson Az. I have always been intruiged by lions, I've killed one predator calling back in 2008 and only seen a couple others in my life. I have always been interested in having my own hounds but was never at a point in my life where I could realistically keep and dedicate time to dogs of this nature. I've had retrievers before but have never trained a dog to track. I'm a complete novice and am stepping in to an obviously complicated new hobby. I dont know anyone in my neck of the woods that I could go out with and run lions with a new dog. I've got some friends up north that have some (decent) dogs but I would be worried that I would put a pup with a decent dog and it would learn bad habbits. I've tried to get books at the local shops on hound training but cant find much of anything of value. I have learned more from this site than I have from most my other reasearch but even finding the basics for a new guy looking to run dry ground is tough here.

Anyway, I am moving into a new house on some land that I'll be able to keep hounds at so I'm ready to dive into the sport. I have been researching breeds of dogs and breeders (Its dang hard to find a good dog in AZ unless you know where to go I guess) and am not picky on breed. I'll need good cold nosed dogs with tough feet for the type of terrain I typically find lion sign, and have been looking for redbone/bluetick/black and tan type dogs but havent had much sucess. I'm planning on running a few dogs horseback . But likely will only get one to start until I figure out good training methods and get it on a few cats (I can imagine having 3 or 4 pups as well as me being a FNG could become a cluster in the mountains).

I guess what I'm looking for is just how to dive into this, what to look for when getting a first dog, and if anyone in my area would be willing to let me tag a long to see how its done. I've got spots where I can turn up cat tracks and could trade lots of Coues deer, and Elk info for some guidance. I look forward to working with hounds and chasing longtails! I know the road will be full of frusturation and I'll likely ask many stupid questions along the way, I'm happy to have found such a good resource full of people who like chasing cats!

***I'll likely chase bears too unless it will make the dog trashy when it comes to tracking cats, we do have a ton of Javelina down here and I've read training hounds to chase bears if you run them in javelina country can be bad news.

I look forward to learning from all of you!

[tman308]

Welcome to the site. Good luck and yes more than one pup would be a huge mistake. There are a bunch of guys down in your country that run dogs. If no one contacts you on here start looking for dog boxes and maybe you can bump into one.

[pegleg]

Hounds are a full time hobby. Much more so then bird dogs. Bird dog breeds have been bred as house dogs and companions also. Hounds not nearly so much. Hounds don't normally come with a off switch like some other dog types. Hounds are also unusual in voice and identifiable by nearly any one. While they don't normally bark more then other large breeds they can if not trained otherwise or out of boredom. Az dog laws can be interpreted in restrictive ways by the animal control officer. I will say get to know your neighbors well first. I've always had very complete kennels and have had various encounters with different animal control officers. A video security system in your yard or kennel will be very useful. Otherwise be honest about the time you have to devout to a dog year round and day to day. If you can't dog proof a very large area and provide lots of exercise daily you will likely have some issues. You should find a dog that is from a people orientated line and easily trained. The more obediance work and time you spend with the hounds the less these issues will crop up and more pleasant your experience will be.

[pegleg]

So far as finding a dog az has a good number of hounds. Here are a few thoughts and experiences. You need a dog willing and capable of trailing a lion in the desert not one that you could or might be able to teach to trail. One that is born with a head start or should be. There are some coonhounds in tucson and most towns that have good hunt and treeing bred into them but are sometimes not tuff enough mentally or in trailing to get you going right. Then there's the cross bred or mixed hounds that may be more prone to please their handler or be more heads up in style but weak in drive and trailing. This may seem picky and it is but here is my reasoning. And I'm sure someone will feel the need to disagree for some reason or the other. But as its your first hound there's certain things you will be less likely to teach it and that tends to be drive and trailing. You can teach a dog not to bark needlessly, to not run trash, to bark treed or bayed correctly under most circumstances and to handle. But you have to locate and trail a lion before any of these things matter in the least. Putting something into a hound that's not there to begin with is a loosing fight. Like teaching a flushing dog to point if you are persistent, lucky, and good you may get some of it across but not to the extent you would have with a natural pointer. And with trailing conditions in az this isn't the weakness you want in your only dog. Being trashy is next in importance in my list but that is often training or lack of. Mike leonard has a brief traing article here on bgh for cat dogs. There's also Jown Wicks books on training hounds which are very thorough and vicki lamb has a book along with several others. John wicks being my first suggestion. A e collar and tracking device are also recommended with the guidance that while e collars can help dramatically if used correctly. Inproper use will ruin any dog eventually. Train first and once your confident the dog understands but is making the decision to disobey use the collar to reinforce commands. Remember. There's plenty of good hounds you just have to wait and look for them to get them. Unlike other breeds there isn't a huge market or pet market. So good hounds are bred as needed not mass produced. Good luck and hope your successful

[WestonAZ]

[WestonAZ]

I guess I should add here: I also have a rifle spring bear tag for unit 33 those of you who know southern AZ know this is a pretty coveted tag and there are a lot of big bears (by our standards). Its a long hunt (end of march-may) I was planning on spot and stalk which is how I've been sucessful at finding bears before, but if anyone down here wants to try and run there dogs in this country I wouldnt be opposed to trying that option for awhile.

Just thought it might be a decent opportunity for some of you guys to get out on bears in an area where bear hunting is pretty limited!

[Idcurs]

I am pretty sure you can't run dogs on your spring bear hunt?We have ran into this even with the gov's tag!!!!!

[TomJr]

yea Dogs can't be used on bears until august... as far as I know.

[pegleg]

Not trying to dissuade you just being honest. I've had several occasions to use tapes of my kennels. I live in what might be considered a remote area. Not the end of the world but you can't see a house or road from my place and the nearest property line to my kennel is state land a quarter mile away. However I had the experience this last fall of a guy who sit up a tent a mile from me on a piece of property and hiked out from there crossing my land and a neivhboring piece of property. He felt my dogs barking at him invaded his right to silence on his hikes called the sheriff and lodged his complaint. Now to be clear on this that's trespass. The sheriff showed up with animal control and the dogs ofcourse barked at their arrival and I went out to great them. They stayed here for most of a hour photoing each dog individually. And asking their questions. Now these dogs have all worn e collars and anti bark collars . They quit barking the moment I went out as they always do. I have my dogs on self wateres and feeders except for three who will not self regulate their feed. They are hunted every second day or roaded daily for the most part. The officers remarked that the dogs seemed unusually quit and restrained after there initial welcome. Most houndsmen wont believe the lengths I've had to go to achieve this but the very reason I've had to is the vagueness of unnecessary barking. That leaves a lot up to a officer who may or maynot be reasonable or for or against dogs or hunting.

[pegleg]

Now to explain some facts. I was formally like you and employed by our govt. In a different capacity. But because of this lived on ten acres near a town. For years I never had a issue then a neighbor retired and sold his home and my troubles started when the women who moved in asked why we had so many of the same dogs. That was my learning curve along with my dogs. In 07 I no longer was restricted in my choice of living arrangements so I chose to buy one section of land in with state land along two sides and little chance of development along most of the remainder. If I can't avoid the inconvenience of the bark laws vagueness I suppose most people will become acquainted with it also. You might avoid this in some ways. Live on a large ranch, live in a secluded canyon surrounded by govt. Lands, be extremely lucky in neighbors, or train your hounds to be very silent. Another action is to select dogs with less vocal range and a small team. I however prefer hounds with a hounds bawl and have a dozen. That's my choice but for my peace I spend a great deal of energy on teaching them to be well behaved and kept exercised. Along with installing video and audio which most surveillance systems don't include. I had some young dogs this summer and found that I had to drastically increase their exercise to keep them happy. But it also encourages them to expect it and say hurry at the gates. But this is all just a long explaination as to why you should be prepared. And then there's the leash laws in some counties even though a hunting dog maybe hunted off lead not every officer is aware of this.

[pegleg]

Any way I'm not talking you out of it just warning you as your more likely to succeed. Second sorry about the typos but I'm on a phone and tired. Az has great lion hunting and a nice season. We don't typically produce real large toms but there are some out there. Our bobcat season could be improved. And the bear are usually harvested quickly in most units and as the others say I am not aware of a "spring" bear pursuit /harvest with hounds season either. There's many houndsmen in the state so its not impossible just inconvenienced by the dog laws. Being a officer hopefully you wont be harrassed unreasonably. But even one of our sar handlers has been targetted for working his dog off leash in the past. I guess I'm glad there's no laws against braying mules or calling horses for then I would give up and move to another state. Good hunting and hope your successful. Just remember you need a hound that is driven and able to trail before anything else.

[DevilDog18]

How's it going Weston? I just got back in to hounds from a long break, I'm out here in 33 by oracle. PM me sometime if you'd like to go out n hunt, and bear hunting with dogs isn't allowed from jan- july. Have a good one.

[WestonAZ]

[WestonAZ]

[DevilDog18]

Yea it's some good hunting up here in the Catalina's and the galuiros, I do run the dogs in the summer mostly at night in units that have night time hunting like the galuiros but yea just give me a hollar when u want to go and I'm in.