steep verses flat ground

[al baldwin]

When I first met Tom Barnett he talked more about Ray Barklow than anything else. Ray had suffered a couple heart attacks by that time, so Tom always had a young dog or two he was training for Ray. Ray came down and hunted with Tom some & I was invited along. Ray was the only hunter I ever heard lecture Tom,& Tom listen to him. Mostly about Tom refusing to answer him on the Radio when Tom was trying to kill a baying bear & Ray/s job was to remain in the rig and pick us up when possible. Or turning tired dogs loose on a coyote after the dogs had caught one that day & Ray needed to get back to Eugene. Recall Tom turning down anyway, telling Ray they would catch it soon, of coarse that did not happen, dogs ran the rest of the day and some of those dogs were found in Delta Saddle the next day. We had seen the coyote on Grant/s ranch. A couple times hunted with them in Lane County. Good memories. Al

[twist]

Mark will agree on the steep part on a jumped cat but our mountains here have limited roads one road up bottom of a canyon and no other roads for miles so one can get into a heck of a long day with dogs on a cold track trailing in these remote areas. Thats why i have moved to the lower country. Easier on the dogs and me lol. Andy

[1bludawg]

Brad,I remember Ray was working over here in the early 70's(I think ).I never met him but my dad talked to him .

[1bludawg]

I always thought the cat had it easier,up hill or down.They can just get around so much better in the rocks ,fallen timber,slash and brush.Many times the dogs have to go around something the cat climbed.Offhand i can remember 3 different times that a cat ran down(up) a old growth log .When the first dog started across the log broke loose and rolled down the mountain.One of my friends dogs died .My Cheyenne dog just missed getting crushed by one of the other ones.The hounds really have to work to tree some of those little acrobats !

[mark]

The original question and the one i was commenting on was " which is easier to RUN a cat on". A cat by design is not capable of running like a hound (lungs). Once the dogs have a cat RUNNING they dont have the air to pull a steep hill on dogs, if they can the dogs may need some conditioning or pick their heads up some more. A smart dog will go around a lot of the obstacles a cat uses when possible. There are alot of cats caught on very steep ground all across this country so i would have to say that the cat doesnt have all the advantages.

[david]

You guys are just lucky your cats run up and down. Out there in the Relo Dayvo mountains they always run side hill. They had to develope two strains of dog. One strain was short legged on the left side. The other strain was short legged on the right side. You really had to have one of each.

[1bludawg]

Mark ,aren't all cat caught on steep ground in Oregon? Some just steeper than others. I get your point .

[Varminator]

I think if a cat runs up, down or straight a dog should catch it, but when it go's "Up" or "Down" a log leaning on a Rock Rim, the cat has plenty of time to catch his breath, before the dogs can find a way around. Then the cat may walk,trot or run along the Rim and go off or up again.
J.C. said "shorter loses" I think that was what he getting at??
The same could apply to a Big Timber wind fall Patch. ( Mark use your imagination, LMAO)

By no means am I saying that there isn't any Rims around there! I know the Grand Canyon is big, and Texas has the biggest everything, from what I've heard for years??? LOL!!

[al baldwin]

I would like to experience hunting cat in terrain like was shown in that video, sure there are things that make hunting there more difficult that shown. I notice very little under brush, so much that It makes me think tracking could be tough at times. I would not care if I lost some cat, just think one could hear most of each race. How often here do you hear the whole race? And I sure was envious of those hunters not needing chalk boots. And being able to see the ground where they were walking very plain. Most of all FLAT GROUND. Al

[Varminator]

Al, from what I know about him(Ray Barklow), he was "The Varminator" and I'm just a varminator like many others on here...Brad

[Gary Roberson]

I favor the shorter backed dogs with a little daylight between the front legs and good muscling through the hips. I like longer legs and a medium blocky head. I agree with Al that the most important characteristic in a hound is desire to catch on the ground. Brains are a nice feature and a good nose and a dog that knows how to use it.
There is no doubt that the flat country along the coast that you find from Texas to Florida is great for running in spite of the dense cover. Generally sandy soils with little to no rock, dew every night and the dense cover helps to hold the scent.
Adios,
Gary

[southern fox]

flat gound, no rocks , dew all that , yes that's what we have but its not as easy as it seems, woods are thick , some places cant even crawl thru them have to get on top of it , I have seen and been in places where you are no where close to the ground, as some have said so thick you cant cock a pistol in it, I can see where its probably harder to run on steep ground, it would be for me and my stuff probably couldn't do it , like yall do, but the same for you if you were here senting conditions isn't the same, dogs that work there might not work here, me my opinion, I don't believe a tree hound can run something any faster and put more pressure than a running hound can if the pack of running hounds are right, treeing fox, have ran them 12 hrs with 23 head that is no joke , 5 hrs usually cause don't want to take a chance on killing the game, we don't have that much game, have ran cat 6 hrs with no catch, and im talking abt looking at him seemed like but where they were running him as I said so thick couldn't cock a pistol, dogs eyes beat shut, front legs raw , tail wore to the bone, I would say its where someone is used to hunting man and dog, this place where I live holds hrs on running game, grey fox will run all night and cover 2 or 3 thousand acres not 100, will go out of hearing , and the cat will take you to where he lives and crawl thru briars all night if one don't have a hound that will get in there and cawl with him you wont run much, its 2 different parts of the world, and where one hunts might not be the best for someone on the other side , I have never seen anyone here hunt with tree hounds other than coon hunting, don't know why just never seen it, don't want to argue, abt any thing but must be a reason ! might be running dogs aint the thing and nobody knows it ! or might be the other way around

[Old dog]

to me its a no brainer jc. its harder on the dogs to run up or down hill than it is on flat ground. brushy or clear its still more strenuous to run up or down. also its far harder for a dog to locate in the timber on steep ground. and I agree about shorter looses also. jmo

[coastrangecathunting]

I have a male dog I bought from alan hayslip named Wildman. Wildman was supposed to be a hard running up front dog. Here he is anything but. I think it is the brush and steep terrain that is holding him back. In this country once a dog is 100 behind he is slung , unless he makes the right move at the right time. In flat ground a dog can get back in the race pretty easy. On steep ground with sharp draws like here , That 100 yrds is more like 500 . A dog can be out of hearing of another dog in seconds here. if a dog tries to cut to another dog and that dog tops a mountain , he better hit the track or keep going in the right direction. Maybe Wildman was not as good as I was told? He does want to hunt and gives it hell when he is with the rest of the dogs. But give him 3 mins and hes behind and wont catch back up unless they swing back by him.

jc

[mark]

So in all these scenarios that make it tough on a dog in steep country im suppose to believe that the cat is bouncing around like it is still flat?????? I have seen where cats have went up logs on rims and have also had them grab trees when they got up there safe and sound. Just seen to many times where the steep ground is awful tough on the cat too. Im still talking about a running cat not one that is slipping around in front of the dogs or still hunting.

If i can get this picture to post there is a cat in one of the trees on top after the dogs ran it through the rim.