Are hounds really that stupid?

CRA · Post by **CRA** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:39 pm

Here is something I wrote years ago when I kept reading where some hound hunters were saying how stupid most hounds where and we need to breed some brains into them by adding other non hound breeds for brains. My guess was they were applying that straight hounds were not that smart. I admit that I have seen a lot of dumb hounds, but there is dumb in all breeds when they are loosely bred by individuals that have no reason breeding dogs. That got me to thinking about what we ask of our cat hounds, but this could be for any hound that excels at the game they pursue.

Cat hunters ask a lot of their hounds. They want a hound to ride the rig through herds of elk, deer, bear, hogs, lion, coon, coyote, fox and all other ground trash that share the woods, without saying a word on the rig. Get a whiff of faint bobcat scent, and fire off the rig. Catch just enough scent to find the right direction the cat is traveling, cold trail an animal that produces the absolute least amount of scent out of any animal that I’m aware of. Follow this faint scent trail laid down by an animal that zig zags all over the woods while hunting for its next meal and loves to stick tight to the roughest terrain during their hunts.

Cat hunter’s demand for their cat dogs to work a cat track that may have fed through an area 10 to 12 hours prior regardless if the weather has plummeted way below freezing or if the temperatures are quickly increasing. Work this faint scent trail through all other species that share this country, without ever breaking off track, or falling to the temptation of any other species. Work this faint trail through always changing scenting conditions, barometric and atmospheric pressure, dew point and pollen changes, gravel roads, creek crossings, and cats walking on top or across downed logs or long running rim rocks, or boulder jumbles. Cat tracks crossing one another, faint cat tracks that lead through sun baked fast thawing south slopes, frozen north slopes, frost heave, thawing conditions, wind, fog, rain, mist, cats tapping trees, stomped out kill and feeding areas, tracks crossing dusty roads or through culvert pipes, tracks following the edges of gravel dusty roads where the wind shifts the track almost continuously. After all these deterrents and many others, cat hunters expect their hounds to jump the cat, apply a tremendous amount of track pressure with minimal loses, through bare rocks, briar patches, super tight brush, thorny brush, downed logs, soaking wet brush, wind blowing dry shifting sugar snow filling up the track, wet slushy snow dropping from the trees into the tracks, or dry dusty or sandy ground conditions at other times. This hound most accurately find the right tree the cat climbed, locate the cat and bark treed for countless hours, in a tree that sometimes grows up to 150 feet tall under all these extreme conditions. A cat hunter asks this plus some with a single lead dog, or a pack consisting of multiple skill levels. Many times with major distractions like pups running around playing grab ass, or trying to lick the old dog’s faces at the tree or while cold trailing, trying to break off track to run trash, stomping all over the cat track, or kicking up dust.
Now after putting all these aspects out on the table plus some I missed of what it takes to be a full spectrum well rounded cat dog, do you really believe these types of dogs aren’t brilliant? Other breeds of dogs seem super smart about doing certain things, but don’t underestimate the brains it takes to be a great cat hound!!!

Big N' Blue · Post by **Big N' Blue** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:14 pm

Very. eloquently put..

mark · Post by **mark** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:03 pm

Good post Charlie!..... Over the years the one thing i have noticed is that most of the time when a guy talks about how dumb a hound is its because he doesn't understand the dog. We have all watched a dog/dogs at sometime or another and shook our heads at what an rattle headed idiot it was only to have it put a cat up in the next few minutes. We don't have a clue what scent is doing because we cant smell it! We have all kinds of theory's and guesses but only that dog knows what its smelling and where its coming from. I have learned from many hard experiences that most of the time when i try to think for a dog (help it out) it just screws the whole deal up and results in more lost time on the cat. Feeding loops of and back onto a road are classic examples. I have seen a lot of guys myself included at times because a dog keeps coming back to the road time and again while the others are still up there on the track. Neither of the dogs are stupid IMO just a different style of trailing, the one dog had figured out the cat was headed back to the road a little quicker than the others. But it sure is easy to call stupidity on either end. That being said , i have seen and had dogs that were just plain stupid and never figured anything out for themselves. I guess my point is that a lot of the dumb dogs are just smarter than their handler.

South Texan · Post by **South Texan** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:09 am

Great post Charlie!

I would have to question their ability as houndsmen for those who thing most hounds are dumb.

slowandeasy · Post by **slowandeasy** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:30 am

[quote="Big N' Blue"]Very. eloquently put..[/quote

ELOQUENTLY JEEZ!!!!!! Two days in a row Blue. You are trying to either make this chit way above my pay scale. Or make others think you are way above yours. Either way I would just echo what Robbie said. And add that those that believe hounds are stupid. Have allowed themselves to not reach their potential as a trainer and houndsman. As there is plenty that is not on the Garmin. And the hounds are to smart many times.

Take care, Willie

Big N' Blue · Post by **Big N' Blue** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:52 am

Sorry Willie! I had the blessing to be educated in Texas before Common Core! Forgot you are a Yankee! Lol

BIGBLUES · Post by **BIGBLUES** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:25 pm

A hound is only as dumb as its owner. Have a dumb hound? Then your a dumby.

Big N' Blue · Post by **Big N' Blue** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:01 pm

BIGBLUES wrote:A hound is only as dumb as its owner. Have a dumb hound? Then your a dumby.

Nuff said there!!! Lol

david · Post by **david** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:11 am

Charlie, you are a great writer drawing from a deep well of knowledge. You are a keen observer and have a way with words. I wish you would put together a history of the great California varmint dogs.

Varminator · Post by **Varminator** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:42 am

Charlie wrote, "Other breeds of dogs seem super smart about doing certain things, but don’t underestimate the brains it takes to be a great cat hound!!!"

Great detailed Story! THANKS, for all your input !!!!!

dhostetler · Post by **dhostetler** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:57 pm

I believe hounds have above average intelligence in the dog world but I have seen and hunted some very dumb hounds. I also believe intelligence is the single most important feature in a hound to consistently catch game especially if you use the hounds to hunt multiple species.

Bluetickhounddog · Post by **Bluetickhounddog** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:37 pm

fallriverwalker1 · Post by **fallriverwalker1** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:23 pm

well written story.i've said for yrs the problem with most dog's is there smarter than the man trying to train them

Grzyadms4x4 · Post by **Grzyadms4x4** » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:26 pm

I don't see why it isn't possible. But why would a man want to retrain his hound to do bomb detection. Some dogs have a drive to catch and some have a drive to please. These two types of dogs are apples and oranges but they are both highly trainable and obedient. The problem lies with most hounds desire to catch and maybe catch isn't the right word but can you imagine an excited hound when he found the bomb, that could go south real quick depending upon what the trigger is. (Dear NSA, I'm talking about dog training, stand down.) The shepherd dogs, as we all know, are used in various capacities within, civilian, police and military service. They love to please their master. Training a hound to do their job would go against their natural instincts.

well written story.i've said for yrs the problem with most dog's is there smarter than the man trying to train them

X2

southern fox · Post by **southern fox** » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:39 am

I have seen a few dumb hounds, but a lot with a lot of brains, a dog is a dog and most will do what there bred for, I said most ! but I believe it takes awhile for the dog with continuous work to come into his senses, no matter how there bred he doesn't have the game sense while he is young like the older seasoned dog that's been hunted day in day out, have hunted with a lot of hounds that knows when you get to a certain place in the woods that a cat or fox lives there, being for them finding him there before, and they will pick up the speed to get there where he is at, that is thinking ahead, and knowing where there at, I believe one should hunt different places mix it up so the hound has to work harder for him not knowing where he is at, hunt in the same place regurarly and they know where the game is ,have had them strike a cold trail and hammer it around and lose it , and finally come out , and we move on , several miles of trotting them on the road, and he goes to missing, a lot of times they go back and try again, thinking ahead again or just determined to do what there bred to do, hounds are not stupid , ther just wired different from any other dogs cause its the way there bred , instinct is what it is, the desire to smell sent and put it to running ! but a lot are stupid also ! this is my opinion on a stupid hound ! a hound that destroyes his home, craps everywhere , even in his water bucket, have seen people put them on blocks so he cant get high enuf to crap in it that's stupid, one that slings crap all over the pen and then walkes all over it , in my book aint worth 50 cents, he is trashy and a lot of times if one watches close it will show in the woods ! way to many in the world that wont do that , one like that will be having a new home soon if he is in my pen,