onalimb wrote:Redwood Coonhounds wrote,
"I think I would rather breed to a dog that has never smelt a bear, than a dog that does a poor job on one. There's a chance that the dog that never smelt a bear could have been a top dog, where the other, we already know that isn't so. I feel that will be most bear hunters feelings as well."
Pretty hard to argue with that logic, unless you throw in the possibility of breeding to a proven beardog. I would rather be able to say, "My dogs come from 'X' number of generations of beardogs, not, well their sire really sucked, but they are ok.
And I don't think most bear hunters will agree with you, but I'm sure there's a couple out there that are a more sensitive type bear hunter, and take peoples feelings into consideration when breeding, not just the performance of a dog.
I'm just an old school type bearhunter, that breeds beardogs to beardogs, to get beardogs. But after all these hundreds of years of doing it that way, maybe it was a waste of time, and everybody should have been breeding to a dog that never smelled one, wouldn't stick, or got chased back to the road!
That type of breeding will have you out of dogs in a couple generations, and you'll be trying to fix the problem that started in the breeding pen, by the same method............only then, you'll be breeding to a proven beardog to try and get back everything you lost.
There are a lot of young hunters that read these posts, I hope they are paying attention, before they pay their money, time and effort. Poor Kids.
If ya know that much stick with it cause your a bit limited in being knowledgable of stud dogs from a line of good hunting dog/ some make it some don`t for ya. What I`m talking about is simply facts not openions . I`m saying its proven by sastics by 100`s of crosses by 1000`s of stud files records of litters born and raised out by hunters all over the USA and many hours of reasearch out too find out which dogs are makeing top coon dogs that reproduce even better coon dogs for the hunts. They have now proven over years the number of great reproduceing stud dogs that was a credit too their breed and reproduced on and up !
Its from those few hounds of different kept lines that all the same flow of pass-on hunting too offspring comes from/ regardless if your buying a puppy for coon hunting, bear hunting,lion hunting or bobcat hunting. If in a good hunters hands and if hunted they will reproduce game dogs of good worth usually/ in tracking and treeing type hounds that fight the game they persue thats what it just is !
Nance`s old Topper, Nances Little Topper and now Nances Little Topper Again are nationaly known stud dogs that reproduce good gam hound offspring or at least put their half in the made crossing too! Yet Ole Cowboy,Big Bow same national sire,gd son but not of national note did also pass-on and up and the grt gd son Summers Burt surpassed his Daddy Big Bow, surpassed his gd daddy ole Cowboy and became known also in the beardog world of Ca. and in the ACHA, UKC Ca STATE hunts far superior than his get/ Rick is a dog man and is a bear hunter and good on a cast draw. His previouse sires was not event swam or field trial dragg race used but again Ole Burt shined at swims and draggs and his offspring and dg and grt gd sons and daughters have shined also on what Rick does with his stock of Nance dogs, he bear hunts,coon hunts,swim event and field trial events all his stock and they excell even today.
Well Sackett Jr. line is proveing today in time too be very much accrost the board the calaber of offspring for all seriouse hunters/coon,bear,lion, varmints dog hunting,swims & drags and UKC & ACHA, PKC point hunteing .It doesn`t mean that if your dog is a gd son or gt gd son of a known on the map UKC stud dog that he is less, it just mean he has passon and up ability in him too, but the deeper colder well water is purerer and taste better and is bottled and sold and quenches many folks thirst and they can trust hat lable on the bottle not reject it because it don`t say champion bear dog drinking water !!
You who are going too raise and train and invest 3 yrs in a pup that hunts and your hopeing too have the next GREAT THING owe it too yourselves too not be lazzy and too learn as much as you can learn too make your choices the best that you can make !Just think how good you have done with your kept line of hounds out on the west coast, out of stock from the coondog world behind them and don`t limit your field of view too beardogs ! Ya can, when choseing a sire, but just begin too think futher and what if I cross now too a nationaly known stud dog whos papers reads likethe who`s-who of wall street on every dog in that stud dogs first 2-4 or more genorations ?! What even better would my stock be like ?Ya owe it too all the time and hunting and eventing and contacks you have made too date/ too yourself keep current on your breed of choice ya keep and breed on.
I did that with an English Coon hound I payed a whole lot of money for 1 and 1/2 yrs befor he was born, he har 12 World Hunt Champions in his first 4 genorations in his peddgree and his sire and dame was crossed 4 times and pups went too deserning hard hunters only/ he was a full brother too George Spevys Hard Time Son ! coondogs event hounds and nobody in Ca. thought they would have invested and presearch though the English field too go directly too the deep well and they all scoffed till they found out at 6 months old Gissmoe was treeing his very own coon solo and did from first time out in the woods/ at 7 months old he won a cast, at 8 months old he won a UKC hunt of just one full cast but he was the only puppy the rest was pretty much winning Ca hounds over 4 yrs of age and Gizzmor had the only coon of the hunt up over him while the other 3 run round and round ?NOTHEN....
On Gizzmoes 1 st bear at 1 yr old he caught it and bayed it, the next morning he did it again same little bear and both times he was with other dogs, The day offter that his feet was swollen up like catchers mitts and bleeding from not being use too mtn churt rds and sides of mtns with tiny rocks/ but even thoug he was way behind on that days bear track and tree up/ he made it on his on and looked good doen it. That was a big,tall bore bear and we let it come out and they reran it and retreed it again and Gizzmoe made it ! He continued on with bear,mtn lion hunting for me and coon hunting and excelled. There wasent a bear dog nor lion dog in his papers but his stock of line went too seriouse hunters on a long waiting list and they made there own marks on big game ! Gismoe was not a beardog he was killed at just over2 yrs of age and he was however cause a few bear too slip-out-of-the-tree and die !
When I put him in a wild coon hunt held by the U and Eye Sportsman club we had fells from that club come too see thispup go because he was createing a following ! They were inpresse and it was a terrable nite cause yea they treed 2 coon, but he got a face and throught full of porkey quills and still made the tree and blooed on it !Gurss openions change hua,but facts remain/ I did my homework,put in my time and settled for no less than the best and it payed off pretty nicely on just 1 try at it.
It don`t make me a big shot but it taught me thing in the woods after my time studying spending my moneys and then raiseing and hunting this 1 puppy .
They are the same folks that own ten year old "Beardogs" without scars. 
