Running dogs that tree

[twist]

Dewey, I do catch a very high percentage of cats I turn out on. If its five a day I would lie could it be done yes but one has to live in an area that has a high amount of cats and Montana isn't that state. Can't catch if you can't find or not here pure fact. I just can't figure out why the coast is just so hard of hunting it takes a special cat dog, that is just found there and is found no where else. If one lives in an area where you can catch up to five cats a day that is an area loaded with cats so if they are that thick a farm dog should be able to put up at least 2 a day. Andy

[catdog360]

Guys, you are reading too deep into what people are saying. No one said 20 minute cold trails, but 20 minute jumps. No one said a tree dog can't catch our cats. These guys have proved that in the competition. We have seen different pure bred coon dogs catch cats. But look who has two trees and ran around 4-5 cats that weekend.

Its a style that certain people here desire. They hunt hard and long days. My pure tree dogs can't keep up with the running dogs in longevity. I hunted three days in a row ran 5 tracks and had to lay up my tree dog after 3. But my running dog went all three days and all 5 races.

They hunt different then tree dogs, its a style or lifestyle per say. And it not just here. It all over the south west and south east.

Go hunt with these guys and then make your decisions.
And if you think there is no difference in the coast verses the east side of the state verses more open snow country then you have never hunted here.

Mic O'Brien

[cobalt]

I'm confused Dewey, but I'm sure you'll rationalize me into clarity. In many earlier posts you've said it's not worth looking for greatness in a single dog, rather it is much easier to hunt a pack where each dog compliments and/or fills in the weak spots of the other pack members. These last posts seem to describe a single type of dog, a whole dog of near perfection, in fact you refer to a dog or a bobcat dog and mention nothing of the pack effort, like all the dogs are performing the same tasks equally well. So what is it, the decisive qualities of a dog or the cooperative effort of the pack?

[cobalt]

Oh, one more thing. You seem to question the fluke, high quality, bobcat dogs that come out of tree dog lines and the lack of ability to consistently produce similar quality. Are you producing high consistency in your litters? Or maybe you've isolated a few key qualities and have to be quite selective in the pups you keep? I'm sure it's a great big secret, but I would like to see a 3 generation window of the dogs you feel are the epitome of you program. You seem to want to enlighten people.

[mike martell]

Andy...This will help you visualize what it looks like on the East side dropping onto the desert...In this location, 13" average rain falls per year and in Columbus Mt you get 14". I took this picture the other day hunting. Dropping out onto the sage brush desert country. The rock piles above the tree line are lava flows called the devils garden for good reasons.

[twist]

Mike, thanks for the picture looks a lot like home. Have been through eastern oregon also. What is hard for everyone to relieve is with out high cat popations and road access in our area it is not worth ones time to hunt in our area with out snow you would wear a truck out and run a dogs pads off before you made it worth ones while. We need to cover way to much ground here to find cat tracks. Its just not consistant enough to make it worth ones while. Yes a person can get lucky from time to time but I don't base my hunting on luck. Yes there are guys here that claim they catch in dry conditions a huge amount of cats. Just ask if they will ever take you along and show you. That will be the last you hear of them lol. My house and pickup are always open to any hunter wanting to have a fun day of cat hunting. I have nothing to hide it just has to be with snow. Andy

[southern fox]

Brandon when I use a hound he or she will be 100% Broke , for the young hounds, I can promise if he even starts waging his tail on the wrong thing he will be told on, by the others , they will act funny as of a lot of them coming in and looking at me , telling on the others, as of a young hound , a lot I wont trust for awhile, but I don't have to cause there is a lot more that's out that don't lie, I hunt every dog I carry at once ahead of the truck, except a bunch of pups only one of them at the time cause they will do to much playing, as of catching game I can promise you when he stops you will know if they can get teeth on him , cause they will all Bay it , some wont catch anymore being for older hounds that's been ate up so bad , I hunt almost all females, and they will bay him till you get there dead or alive and bay him as your dragging him to the truck, I can say I know what there doing it when there doing it and when he screwes up I know that also, no matter which dog it is as for barking out of place or trashing on crap, my biggest thing they trash on is small game, coons exp, something abt a cat and a coon that must smell alike cause some will bump a coon the young hounds that is , but that don't last long cause I will fry his but to the truck, I have been using hounds for quite some time and I hunt a lot , here we hunt year round, the take season ends in a coupla weeks but we can still hunt , when one has hunted as much as I have , you will learn what your hounds personality is , you can read him like a book , you will know when he is going to open on the track by looking at body movement, and how interested he is smelling it, its from years of hunting everyother day , that will cause you problems for doing what you love, hunting ruinded one marrage for me and the next that came along I told her if you think its going to be a problem for u say it now cause I wont stop, if a hound is in my pen , he will handle like a dream, I do not put hands on him only when putting on a tracking collar, and they will come when called , except when something has gave them the slip and then they hunt him and I let them , all my stuff is gun broke , gun shy, what ever , if he wont come to the truck horn , he will to the shotgun pop a coupla rounds over his head and he will be coming fast

[southern fox]

forgot something Brandon u asked abt how do I know they caught something, my dogs will not tree, so if he goes up I don't know , and they will come in, but if he is on the dirt you will know , cause they will bay him dead or alive till u get them to the truck, so you will know what you have , and I can promise it will be a cat or a fox, I have 200% trust in my hounds, I do not go to run trash and I wont , I have hounds that do not run anything but bobcat and grey fox

[mike martell]

Mike, thanks for the picture looks a lot like home. Have been through eastern oregon also. What is hard for everyone to relieve is with out high cat popations and road access in our area it is not worth ones time to hunt in our area with out snow you would wear a truck out and run a dogs pads off before you made it worth ones while. We need to cover way to much ground here to find cat tracks. Its just not consistant enough to make it worth ones while. Yes a person can get lucky from time to time but I don't base my hunting on luck. Yes there are guys here that claim they catch in dry conditions a huge amount of cats. Just ask if they will ever take you along and show you. That will be the last you hear of them lol. My house and pickup are always open to any hunter wanting to have a fun day of cat hunting. I have nothing to hide it just has to be with snow. Andy

Andy

I would take you up on your offer but fear being a non resident would get caught for illegally hunting bobcats over hounds......I have found the most bobcats in many years this season, I travel as far as necessary and hunt any type of weather be it snow or extreme dry and unseasonably warm conditions....A guy needs to be persistent under extreme conditions....For this reason, I hunt alone and out of my truck and go until I can no longer drive, sleep in my truck and generally stay gone for many days at a time, this is why I hunt alone because very few houndsmen are willing to do this any more.

Where this picture was taken has a limited amount of bobcats and hours spent hunting for them on bare ground only adds to the challenge that I enjoy the most...I don't have time on my side anymore for health reasons, so I don't let no grass grow under my feet! I have spent an entire lifetime hunting hounds and hunted coon in High school with rig dogs and never knew how to free cast a hound and wouldn't for many years after I first started hunting. Many good walker lines aren't haired up enough to take the elements of rigging, dog don't rig? I don't keep them...

I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you just ground it out day after day....My catch ratio is way off under extreme bare ground conditions and I don't let that keep my from going right ahead on it..... I very seldom free cast on the east side because by doing so or roading, I'm taking the good edge off my dogs and want them as fresh as possible...I find if I can start it on the ground, I can start if from the rig deck....

I think this paints a clearer picture why I need the running dog cross over hounds, when I'm hunting with Doug, we run two or three bear a day and usually catch 10-15 per week, the sun sets around 11pm up north and if we rig at 8 pm, we turn loose, by hunting in this manner most hounds drop out around day three...I also will not feed a straight bobcat hound, I have yet to own one real deal anything hound that would make it worth keeping just to catch one species,so I keep very few hounds around.

Many of the good walker cat hound strains don't stick on a mean bear, those I don't feed. Hounds have more of a tendency to be sticky on track also and this doesn't work if you need to suck the air out of a lynx in deep snow and only serves to ring the dinned bell for the wolf!...My situation is way different than most!
You ever get out this way your are welcome to come by and hunt!
Take care! Mike

[twist]

Mike some day I would like to take you up on uour offer. There is sure no law here that can keep sn out of stater from riding along with a hound hunter so don't let that stop ya from ever coming this way. Good hunting. Andy

[South Texan]

Southern fox, I like how you answered their questions. You know your dogs for sure, I can tell by reading your post.

Wish we wasn't so far apart. I'd love to hunt with you and watch your dogs in action but I'm not much of a traveling man so probably want happen. But.... If your ever in this neck of the woods and want to make a hunt, give me a holler. But... If you have seen your dogs hunt you have seen mine. We hunt a lot alike!
Robbie

[Big N' Blue]

Southern fox, I like how you answered their questions. You know your dogs for sure, I can tell by reading your post.

Wish we wasn't so far apart. I'd love to hunt with you and watch your dogs in action but I'm not much of a traveling man so probably want happen. But.... If your ever in this neck of the woods and want to make a hunt, give me a holler. But... If you have seen your dogs hunt you have seen mine. We hunt a lot alike!
Robbie

Yep Robbie, sounds like you and Southern fox hunt exactly the same!! A shame ya'll live so far apart!! Kindred Spirits that would have never met except for the internet!!!

[South Texan]

Big N Blue, good to hear from you. Yes this internet is something else! I can travel to places on it that I'd never get to any other way.

There is another fox hunter (he hunts cat too) on here by the handle of Perk. Whenever he post anything on here, it is well worth reading. I sure like how these fox hunters hunt & think. Maybe I should have been a fox hunter. Anyway Perk & Southern Fox both know what they're talking about when it comes to hunting, in my book anyway.
Robbie

[Olmuleskinner]

The 2015 Bobcat Rendezvous, would be a great place for South texan and southern fox, to meet up and enjoy a great hunt. I know it is a long ways from South Georgia, but it would be well worth the trip.
I went last year, great people and hospitality. Lots Of cats and places to hunt.

[Clyde Lawson]

The 2015 Bobcat Rendezvous, would be a great place for South texan and southern fox, to meet up and enjoy a great hunt. I know it is a long ways from South Georgia, but it would be well worth the trip.
I went last year, great people and hospitality. Lots Of cats and places to hunt.

I am one that thanks you for the comment about our get together last year.

This gathering of cat hunters are just common guys that love their hounds and the challenge presented attempting to run/catch/tree the wily bobcat. There are some that run and enjoy running both fox & bobcat(in our area we have more red fox then gray). To each their own and we have enough public country that no one gets in each others way. Roads are good and numerous so it takes just your pickup to hunt out of with your hounds. I would recommend, if you do not use, the Garmin with Birds eye so you do not get lost and know where your hounds and the race are and what road to stay with them.

I have had the good fortune to have hunted from Wyoming to SW Texas, and from Missouri to Arizona(have not go to hunt in the NW part of the US). But will say that I have found no tougher country to attempt to run Mr. Bob then SE Oklahoma. If that area has the moisture your hounds can run all the cats they likely can take(last weekend in 3 day & early morning hunts, I struck 5 cats rigging, & 1 roading--had 6 good races, catching two on ground)---my pack were finished by Sat evening & I went home! Without utilizing rigging to strike, I am like Mike M in prior post that would be cut in half cause pack would be finished.

Andy mentioned his country and his problem in striking cat track. I converted to rigging about 90 days ago and will not go back! It saves my hounds and keeps them fresh for the race, & it is great way to train my young hounds. I know when a strike is a cat by my broke hounds and then turn in the youngsters! It is like a "jump" race and provides only positive training most of the time.

Can only think Jimmie M. & Jimmie J. (who I met last year at the gatherering) for helping me get my pack rigging.

I cover from 25-40 miles on forest roads rigging with 95% of time locating a cat track that can be ran & have a fresh pack to do so. Have had them rig a bobcat traveling 15-20 miles per hour, but usually travel about 5-10 MPH. Helps it seems if there is a small amount of cross wind? A couple weeks on a hunt with Marion G. following, two of the older hounds winded a cat down off of a hillside over 200 yards! When those two were put down--they went that fare with out a bark---then the race was on! We ran him for over a hour, having to catch them off due to getting to close to blacktop highway.

Clyde Lawson