Need some red fox help

[AK Zach]

Let me first start by saying this may come off as a little crazy, I have never had any dealings with red foxes besides just a few sightings since moving here to Alaska, just greys in NC and GA. All this started a couple weeks ago..

Night 1- wake up at 0600, do the morning rounds and discover my chicken coop had been wiped out. 7 laying hens and 2 turkeys completely gone, just a couple feathers. Instinctively grabbed my lead dog, let him sniff around, he did not want to track this animal, probably for fear of being fried, but after some encouragement took the trail and off he went. Never opened, lost after about 1/4 mile. Had seen and heard of coyotes in the area recently, so I figured surely that's what it was since my dog did not want to run this critter.

Night 2- took a couple of the wife's geese and put in the chicken coop as bait, figured this was a coyote and he'd be back the next night. The back porch over watches the chicken coop on the far end of the property, made a blind and started my stakeout. About 0200 here comes mr red fox. Pretty dark but popped a shot at him, missed(1st mistake, should have used the shotgun). Off he ran. Took lead hound, dropped on track, off he went. Opened up, I could tell he was right on him a few times. Watched some circles be drawn on gps and my dog lost him after about an hour. Brought him back to the coop, let him line it out again, after about two hours nothing to show. Called it a night.

Nights 3,4,5,6,7- pretty much went straight nocturnal, trying to figure out where this guy was coming from, went straight fox crazy in the head. Stayed up all night, went to great extreames trying to catch this little booger. Traps with dead turkey poults, a few predator calls, poured fish oil on some stumps, even held a baby chick in my hand and let him peep all night. No sign of fox. Thought maybe the gunshot and then the hound on him was enough to keep him away. Gave up on him.

A few nights later- sitting out on the back porch around 10pm with the wife, literally 15 feet from us here goes mr fox right by us with something in his mouth. Grabbed the gun, too late. Fed up I dropped all three of my hounds on him, watched all kinds of circles being drawn out. Dogs ran him for about an hour hot on him and guess what?? Lost him again!!! $&!"

Fast forward to tonight, go to let the wife's dog out before bed, she woofs, I look up and lo and behold here is mr dadjim fox right in front of my coop. Dumped the dogs, hot on his behind yet again, more small circles and literally after exactly another hour, silence. Took them back to the beginning, trailed again, went cold in the same spot again as it did earlier.

Now fellas: There are no water bodies in this general area, can't be swimming or crossing anything to lose the dogs. Also they don't climb trees, and even if they did manage to I don't have a locating problem. Best I can tell is that these tight circles are confusing my dogs??? I am literally at my whits end with this darn critter. If you know something that I am missing please let me know?!?! Like I said I have 0 experiences with foxes, up until now...

[mike martell]

Zach

I have trapped a lot of Gray fox in S.W. Oregon in live traps baited with a pear? Figure that one out? You might try a live catch trap and see what happens? I find the Gray fox will go in the same size trap used for raccoons....The red fox might be all together different?

Now if that method fails, mix one part ice to two parts whiskey and add a few drops of soda for color and consume!

Good luck buddy!

Mike

[stevemac]

I hunt red fox every weekend in the winter and I think a couple of your assumptions are incorrect red fox do climb trees especially conifer trees and they do go to ground, They will use culverts under roads and wood piles and hollow logs also. having said that I would think that if the fox were using any of these tricks to escape your hounds they would have stayed at the end of the trail and marked where the fox had gone. this is what fox dogs do. Also the foxhounds I have owned when they are close will lift there head and run a fox by sight.

[puma sj]

any one in the states tree red fox in large strait trees? not leaners..... have ran them in sw oregon before but never treed them or put them in a hole... used to tree gray fox consitently[alot of them are reddish in color] just curious if i had poor dogs or bad conditions ???? when i did see them,, they were always 100to 200 yards ahead of my dogs... kind of like a coyote race....

[AK Zach]

Mike, I'll have to try the pear, pretty much out of options.

Steve Mac, pretty cool to learn that they can climb trees, I always heard that they couldn't. Also I don't have "fox hounds", I have trashy bear hounds. I'd imagine this is the first fox they've ran, I know for a fact it's their first red fox experience as it was mine as well. No culverts or hollow logs in this area, which is why my guess is the tight circles are what is throwing my dogs off... Not too sure I'm pretty puzzled, I figured that surely they'd find his den or at least where all my chickens are buried.

Puma I haven't seen an animal move faster in my life than that red fox when I shot at it. I think that it'd take one heck of a dog to catch one on the ground

[southern fox]

he prob got a hole somewhere where he ending it for them , I would go there and look real good cause they don't make a big place to go in , if he ending it for them in the same place all the time that's prob what is happening , he don't have to use the same area all the time to get away if he aint going to ground or going up , if he comes back which he will , I would throw the dogs on him , get them started and haul butt to where he throws them u might get a shot or see what he is doing, and one that's never been ran will run crazy doing all kinds of stuff to get away

[Dan McDonough]

This time of the year it's got to be feeding young. Watch your GPS and it should give you clues to where the den is, find that and you'e got the advantage. Just don't blow your advantage by going in with the wrong dogs or equipment and not killing it. You'll have to think things through once you locate the den. A terrier and a shovel will help but I would be baiting live traps and wiring them open for a week so the fox just thinks it's a little grocery store and then set the trap like normal and catch it.

You can also get some of the old poaching books and there are many other ways to get it done in there. Check out Abe Books for those. I think you'll get a kick out of some of them anyhow. Good luck!

[AK Zach]

Southernfox, that's a great idea you got there!! Haven't tried to get out in front of hounds since running beagles on rabbits. He hasn't come back by yet but I'm sure he will since he knows I have other poultry here.

Mike, split a pear in half this morning and placed in two different traps....

Dan mcd: I thoroughly enjoyed reading your bobcat thread before it got hijacked by lowlifes and morons.... It's a darn shame people don't have anything better to do these days. Because of yours and Dan Edwards threads/pics, I'm looking at getting a coursing dog for hare up here. Those sight hounds look like a blast!! I see you have a dream, stick to your guns and get it done. I am rooting for ya!!! The hell with what them other turds say.

Do you guys know if they have multiple entrances/exits to their den?? If I do find it, (I've really been putting in the work trying to find it) just wondering if I should look for another hole before I start working on it to prevent escape.

Also, how far from their den will they hunt? Are we talking pretty close or couple miles or even further???

[scrubrunner]

Ran a lot of red fox in my younger years with some fast fox hounds, Most will run a lot longer then an hour before holeing but some don't. I think more than likely it pulled some trick and got away the first time, so it has tried the same thing each time and it has worked so far. Red fox here seem to work a circuit feeding, watched one cross a field I was farming just about every third day for the whole spring I was there. If your hounds are not losing it at the den, the den could be a mile or more away.
I have never seen a red fox den with a back door.
Some red fox can climb a tree just like some jack russels can climb one.
Next time, if I could I would have someone else put the dogs on the track and Before they are turned loose i would be where it has ended in the past or in a good opening the garmin shows it has crossed each time so that whether there is a den there or not you might get a good shot.
Have seen gray fox eating grapes, fresh corn and persimmons but have only saw red fox trying to catch field mice and raiding a hen house, don't know if they will eat fruit or not.

[AK Zach]

Fox still at large, I was mowing day before yesterday and the wife was in the garden, the geese free range, wife heard something in the woods and looked and said she saw his tail up headed away from the house. Pretty ballsy fella to come down while I was mowing, figured he was staking us out again. Didn't run the dogs, had to get the grass mowed before rain came in and son had his first soccer practice.

Hey southern fox, I saw you were located in south ga. Whereabouts?? I was was stationed at ft Stewart near savannah in dinky Hinesville for 4 years before moving up here to Alaska.

Mike what's up with these darn fools on here lately brother??

[perk]

I know in different areas game is 'easier' or 'harder' to catch, that what works or is normal in one area may not translate to the next area. But here in Va, it takes a good pack of hard running fast hounds to consistently put red fox in the ground, or catch him, and that's running in the daylight. in the daylight alot of my red fox races last about and hour, some less, sometimes a little more. They run totally different from grey foxes, and require different attributes from the dogs running them to be really successful. At night it is a totally different story, men here for 100 years have revered the red fox because of his stamina, at night he could lead a large pack of hounds for hours, even up to 10-12 hours from the 'great' running foxes on any given night. unless you really like running him with your hounds, i would suggest a foot hold trap to get rid of him if that is the goal. he knows you have poultry he is obviously returning, possibly this fox has a den of young ones, its the right time of year to see young ones coming out of the hole.

Scrubrunner, I've seen reds eat berries same as greys do, also seen them eat mice, other rodents, June bugs, grass hoppers, bread, meat, dog food, etc. they are definitely omnivorous. In the summer i often see their scat full of polk berries, and during the late fall persimmon seeds.

[ands]

The vixens with cubs often seem to have no scent to them at all, ive seen them stand and bark at a dog to draw it away (from cubs) then vanish - almost unhuntable. And boy do they love anything with feathers, if theres hungry mouths to feed then you need a chicken shed like fort knox![url][/url]Should make for some great hunting come winter though lol!

[AK Zach]

Ands, nice pics and great website! You will have to ship me one of them
Lurchers this way

[Dan McDonough]

The fox around here have several holes at the same den site. Coincidentally, I just learned to tie those purse nets they're always using over in the UK. I have 5 of them done so far and three of them are done with a 2" card to make larger meshes for fox and coyote. I have a friend that asked me to come around and get the fox off of the peninsula she lives on for killing half of her chickens.

I hope you can get yourself a lurcher up there. I would think one would do just fine up in AK. Mine have great coats and hold up well hunting on our coldest days here. I would imagine it wouldn't be all that hard to find a border collie up there. The trick would be to find a greyhound or stag female to buy in order to make a batch.

[AK Zach]

Dan McDonough, is there some sort of science to the breeding for them as far as border collie has to be male and greyhound/stag has to be female?? Might be a silly question but I'm interested in finding out. I'd imagine you'd ideally want a great courser line from the sight hound for increased prey drive/chase and a good working/hearding line of border collie for the herding/turning game? Looks like the most successful ones will turn tight corners? In all the videos I watch looks like the dog is going to catch the game, right on his butt and then it makes a quick turn and the dog falls behind again a little bit. I had a gambling problem at the dog tracks in Tampa when I go to see my folks down there, seems like they were always trying to adopt retired/culls out. Those dog races are a blast though. Kids sure love it too. I'd imagine most of them are all fixed though for kenneling purposes.