training pups to cold trail

[catdog360]

Al, first off let me tell you I have a ton of respect for you and your breeding. That is why Sounder has been brought into my line of dogs.
I think some people get the wrong interpretation of what people are saying. I have spent a lot of time this winter and some last winter hunting with Dewey. I have seen things that I didn't think we're possible with hounds. Folk lore I always assumed, till I seen it.
Dewey's dogs are cold nosed and move a cold track at a run, they are excellent locating tree dogs and don't babble.
When they start a track you would swear you are running a bear, but the second they make a lose its dead silence until someone picks it up again. I'm not here to tell anyone what they should hunt, just trying to explain what others have trouble explaining.
Now to the question of could trailing. Don't pull them off a tough track. All you'll do is teach them to quit when the going gets tough. And if they don't keep improving on their learning to move a cold track, you will need to evaluate you dog or your pack and see if you need to pull someone out. Or switch dogs. I've had some bear dogs that could never gain on a cold cat. I'm not sure they had the desire to improve a cat because it wasn't a bear.

Mic O'Brien

[mark]

This cat hunting isnt all that tough if you have an open mind and are willing to check out others dogs and judge them from a positive view and not a jealous one. When you are finally to the point in your life where your priority is making dogs and not just to catch game it all seems to fall in place. The right dogs make it look easy and very few cats get away! One more thing, the more honest you are with yourself the quicker it will happen.

[al baldwin]

Thanks for the information Mic. I have never been one to pull dogs off a cold track without giving them a chance to move it. There are not that many tracks most days so we let them work anything they can wiggle on. However, I hunted with a person who could pull his dogs off cold or hot tracks if they were headed to no mans land & often did. I never saw as it stopped them from cold trailing, will say skinner could work colder tracks than those dogs, but those were very nice dogs. Sounder as I told you was not as good as some in his litter, maybe partly to do with the fact he got moved around to different owners, not getting as much a chance as some of the others. I don/t know where you & Dewey cat hunted, but can tell you the female I sold to Buzz was not the best cold nosed or speedy dog on a jump here. She did good for buzz & I was pleased to hear that, she was not trash but not the best we had. Dewey told me after hunting with her she could really track, was surprised to hear that, she certainly would give her best, but did not add to the dogs we hunted her with. So she was not sold as a high priced dog and was total honest with Buzz. I know sounder never got hunted hard for any good length of time as I explained to you. Mic if dogs are bear hunted a bunch most do not like to settle down on a little smell & grub on a cat, there are exceptions if dogs are given some time to adjust. Good luck to you & Dewey. Al

[merlo_105]

SOOOOOOOO, How do you guys get a pup COLD TRAILING???

[al baldwin]

Mark, I am not jealous of anyone catching most all cats, envious yes. Would love to be able to travel to south Texas, that must have been a great experience, good for you guys. I can tell you when one hunts the same ground over & over, some of those cats can be difficult to catch after they become educated. If one does not bring a yard stick when hunting with another/s dogs, how does one gauge how cold those tracks are those dogs run like running a bear. Years ago I saw Zip/s & Tom Barnett/s dogs run cats in the summer time like they were running a bear. Those dogs were as high wired dogs as I ever seen, yet they could trail with the best. So I have to doubt dogs have to be calm type dogs to cold trail. I am sure Dewey & you have some very good dogs, in my day I had some that were better than anything I will have in the future, & hunted with others who had better than I. Merlo, I think the best way to teach young dogs to cold trail is to turn them loose with cold trailing dogs & if it in them they learn to cold trail. Al

[houndsandterriers]

This is a picture from San Juan county southern Utah, that is the Colorado river, it may be the only river in san Juan county and it came from Colorado. There is more bobcat harvested in this county than any other county in the state.

I am guessing a bobcat trail here could go cold in 5 minutes. Could be a lot different at 500 feet above sea-level with a creek running down every draw like on Oregon's west coast, in Oregon it might take a week for a trail to go cold. I am guessing that everyone is hunting under different conditions.

Maybe the question should be what is a cold trail where you come from.

[mark]

Al, my post was not directed at you in any way. It was not referring to S Texas in any way. It was for people getting started in dogs and trying to get them not to make the mistakes so many in the sport do. Rumors and jealousy fly in this sport and more people should do as Mic did and go check it out and judge for themselves instead of going by someone else's opinion.

[mike martell]

20151013_141526.jpg

.

Rumors and jealousy fly in this sport and more people should do as Mic did and go check it out and judge for themselves instead of going by someone else's opinion.

Case in point?

The picture posted by H&T depicts so much of Oregon.

[houndsandterriers]

One picture from eastern Oregon with out trees. One picture from western Oregon with trees. If I can remember correctly more bobcats are harvested in the west coast forest.

[houndsandterriers]

Picture from Canyonlands national park, in San Juan county Utah. Note, there is not even sage brush let alone grass that grows in some places.

[merlo_105]

Reason's for that H&T the East side has a limit so yeah of coarse it would have less harvested. And another thing look at the harvest statistics over there in San Juan County The catch percentage probably comes from trapping and not hounds. Your right everybody has a difference in Cold trails some cold trails on the coast are short some are long long long. Depends on what type of dogs you want not where your at. For example some people in good cat populated areas would rather burn around on the mountain looking for a good track where I want mine to strike and move a Cats fart...

[dwalton]

Houndsandterriers there is a lot of differences in terrain where bobcats and lion live and different dogs do better in deferent areas. I have treed lions in Utah, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona and Colorado. I have caught bobcat in most of those and hunted in Texas and Arkansas for them. With the current dogs I have now, they have treed or caught on the ground from western Oregon, to the high Cascades, to central Oregon pumice, The high desert of Oregon and California sage brush and rim rock country, even in June and July. I have hunted the wet western Oregon one day and the desert in California the next day and catch cats both days without a problem. I have started off the box bobcats from pouring down rain in western Oregon to dry desert in California in the summer with the same dogs. Everywhere you go you have different terrain and moister to deal with or lack of it. One of my favorite things to do is go to new places to hunt bobcats. If you truly have bobcat dogs I do think you can catch bobcats anywhere not saying it would be easy but it could be done. Dewey

[houndsandterriers]

Them pictures of Southern Utah are from my last vacation to the three national parks right there in the desert, I did not think it was possible to hunt with a dog in that place. That is where they filmed the movie Indiana Jones and the last crusade, it looks like the middle east or something. I wanted to compare one of the worst scenting conditions to one of the best scenting conditions. In an attempt to better understand training pups to cold trail. I read somewhere that two blood hounds in western Oregon followed a 13 day old track and found some missing people. To me that is the best possible scenting condition.

Has anyone ever heard of the TDX license for tracking dogs? I believe that you dog needs to be licences to do certain scenting dog work like search and rescue bomb detection. The guy that wrote this book designed a training program to teach a dog to cold trail. I have used it to train two different proven hound man dogs.

It is important to note any dog can enter the trial regardless of breed, it is sponsored by the AKC but they want mixed breed dogs competing. They may have already found every dogs ability and limitation. With the exception of the houndmans proven American breed dogs. I seen a 7 WEEK old bluetick american breed puppy out trail an adult pointy eared dog.

I also read an article one time of some dog trainer that took an adult dog from a shelter, trained it then attempted to save lives with it. Sure that is a nobble cause but if my life ever needs to be saved i want a dog with the most ability possible trying.

Houndsmen dont take this stuff serious but maybe they should, to show the public what American breed dogs can do. Most the dogs that enter are German shepherds. So can your dog out trail a German dog?


This book has been designed to enable training enthusiasts to successfully train their dogs for these competitions and
for advanced work that is required by efficient tracking teams. In north america there are two tracking titles open
to all breed competition. In canada and the united states the tracking dog excellent (tdx) is passed by only the very
best trackers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg7utuI ... UgFn2xW4GL

[catdog360]

Actually year before last over 600 more cats were harvested in eastern Oregon verses western.
I have hunted bears with hounds for twenty plus years. My style of hunting has been fast and furious. If the dogs weren't leaving the road screaming it was time to move on. That being said I taught my dogs NOT to cold trail.
So through the years I have had to go against my instincts and let the dogs work as long as they are willing. BUT you need to pay attention to your dogs and make sure they are learning to advance that track and not just move it forward. Some dogs just aren't going to ever advance a track.
I do believe Al that some dogs could be pulled off a track and never hurt them, but some dogs will learn to quit when the tough gets going. Every dog is different.

Mic

[mike martell]

I know nothing about blood hounds.. Here is what I have seen in the North Country that is heavily infested with wolves....How can a cold nosed bred hound (the big long bawl mouth, long eared, houndy hound bred for cold trailing more like the bloodhound ) (I call them wolf bait) get blown out by a cur style dog with little or no hound breeding / blood what so ever on the same track? Might mention for cats mainly on snow and bare ground for bear....This has left me scratching my head...What I base my opinion on? Hunting different regions with many different dogs to see for myself what can be done with hounds if you simply get beyond your own opinion based on one location or what you read on the internet. One quote I read over and over in this section. You don't know what you don't know....After all these years, I still find I don't know what I don't know....Nose for cold trailing or brains or a combination of both? In theory the cur would be the colder nosed dog since it got jumped and treed well ahead of the cold nosed hound? But it's not.....To me? It's what your expectations are for the style hound you hunt and the intended game. I never understood this until I started experimenting with the hound / running dog cross and conclude the lack of treeing is well worth finding the right blend to over come this fault and looking back to a lifetime spent with full hounds of any breed or color? You can keep most of them or all in mho...