Bias?

[perk]

I agree, catching game brings that desire out a lot in dogs, don't like to breed to any that don't have that quality of wanting to catch game, no matter how well they run a track

[Dan Edwards]

I think breeding helps but i strongly feel that digging/ baying a hole and treeing comes from dogs that want to put their teeth in the game they are broke on. A dog that don't want to bite and tug on a dead cat or fox is less likely to tree and more likely to move on and find something else to run. So in my opinion it's hard to get a dog to tree if you ain't catching and treeing game.

I have dogs that are stone cold killers that wouldn't dig/bay/bark in a hole if their lives depended on it. Baying/barking at a critter has zero to do with killing it.

[scrubrunner]

i agree Dan, in these parts dogs are culled for digging or baying at a hole. about all fox and more cats than you think would, go in gopher tortoise holes to end the race here, mostly have only sand here and dogs would dig up and kill almost everything they ran befor you could get there to stop them if digging was tolerated.
I've seldom seen a walker foxhound that would run a critter that wasn't running to catch it. Even the fox pen running dogs run to catch, that's what got the fox pens outlawed in Florida.

[perk]

Dan, think he was saying that the running dogs that will tree and bay are normally dogs who like to kill, not all dogs who like to kill will be dogs that bay/tree.

Scrubrunner , have seen 1000s of pen dogs, spent numerous hours listening, watching and judging in them,and having 5-6 pens within a 1hr ride of my house, I have to disagree that pen dogs run to catch/kill. Some do get caught, and some dogs are more apt to it that. Others, but seen many that wouldn't know a Fox if they saw it. A pack of dogs running to catch is running hard as they can the entire time, pen dogs don't run those paths at top speed for 8-12 hours, no animal alive can remain at top speed that long. Dogs trying to catch are trying to close the gap, not what I've seen most dogs, and dogs that won a lot of units money and championships, in many many nights at the pen, just my opinion

[merlo_105]

I'm for good dogs I don't care if there Blue Green or Pink. Mine Range from Full Running Dog, 3/4 Running dog, Half Running and one that has a little more then a Quarter Running dog. Two Full hounds. Both Being of the Blue Variety. Every dog will locate and tree. All tree good enough where most anyone will be happy with even the Full Running dog who started treeing early I think around 10 months. She no doubt will be a Dandy Tree dog this Next season. The 3/4 Probably tree's harder then all the dogs. And this was his first season. He will be a powerful locate tree dog this Next season. The rest are seasoned and Locate and tree all started early. The fastest Locate dog right now is probably one of the Blue's real fast and accurate. I'm not set on one thing I'm very open minded. Plus I don't know anything so that really helps.

[undertheradar]

I think breeding helps but i strongly feel that digging/ baying a hole and treeing comes from dogs that want to put their teeth in the game they are broke on. A dog that don't want to bite and tug on a dead cat or fox is less likely to tree and more likely to move on and find something else to run. So in my opinion it's hard to get a dog to tree if you ain't catching and treeing game.

I have dogs that are stone cold killers that wouldn't dig/bay/bark in a hole if their lives depended on it. Baying/barking at a critter has zero to do with killing it.

I should've emphasized that I am speaking of the American Foxhound.
I had a whole pen full of dogs that would snatch a piece of game and stretch it. But what I'm saying is the chances are for a running hound to tree, dig and bay a hole, he or she is DEAD GAME. Im talking if they didn't catch it and the game has gone up or down, for a running hound to stay, locate and tree, he wants bite it. Everyone I had was that treed well was that way {insert Bias} Some of the best hunters around here don't have a whole pack that will tree up. Our crew always said if you run a fox up or down, you didn't run him hard enough.


I judged a pen field trial 2 weeks ago, it was the worst hound work id ever seen. These guys, some place or win every hunt they go to, high end names and high end crowd. Caught a yote and I watched him walk away. It was like the yard dog catching the car he has been chasing all year "now what am I gonna do?" Fox pens can be a great tool, but a lot of the people that have hounds aren't good houndsmen and their dogs don't run as much game as they do roads. Out of place dogs in a pen field trial is what catches game. Maybe Florida has better fox dogs. Message me when yall have a good one that does it all and gets culled for digging at a hole.

[scrubrunner]

Perk, pens and the hounds in them are probably different now. My last experience in one other than a personal use one me and a couple buddies had was over 20 years ago. I judged the hunt on horse back, pen was full of coyotes and red fox. They wiped them out the first day. What I saw was gruesome, and I've hunted my entire life. Like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm sure all the game was fresh and hadn't been conditioned but it ended me running or judging any pen hunts.
Undertheradar, What you saw 2 weeks ago is not what I saw 20 years ago!
I'm sure Florida doesn't have better fox dogs. I've judged a couple outside hunts this year, saw a couple dogs that impressed me, and a bunch I wouldn't be interested in feeding.
There is some good dogs around here but most all these guys deer hunt and fox hunt with them. There's very few broke non-deer running dogs around here.

[macedonia mule man]

Scrub, there are some pretty good do-all dogs around here also. The only cat I've seen run down and caught was with these do-all type dogs. They didn't have any so-n-so blood lines. They run what ever they smell and do it pretty well. The only thing I know for sure is they have more mostly running dog in their family tree.

[Dan Edwards]

Dan, think he was saying that the running dogs that will tree and bay are normally dogs who like to kill, not all dogs who like to kill will be dogs that bay/tree.

Yep I kinda jumped the gun or didn't read it the right way prolly. That part there I am more apt to agree with for sure.

[dwalton]

Perk I think you are right on. I think most of us are bias based on our knowledge for a certain area, type of hunting or type of dog we use. If you will look you can find all types of dogs in the same breed and there are many breeds and crosses. There are traits one can put on a breed but it will not hold true for all of them in that breed. Most hound men I feel have a limited amount of knowledge because they have not traveled or hunted with a lot of breeds or area's. It is just our opinion that we hold as the truth. A great example of this is of a man that was one of the most successful hunters ever that I got to spend time with in his old age. Dale Lee believed that it was not good to feed the dogs raw meat. That if you did the dogs could not smell to trail. This came about from an experience that he had . I have always fed raw meat at a tree when I kill and have treed bear and bobcats on the way out from the tree. I would never question his opinion on this even though I have had a different opinion. Perk if I ever get back east again I would like to see your dogs run. Good hunting Dewey

[Tanner Peyton]

This is kind of off topic but kind of on topic. I guess one bais I notice is the papered vs the non papered dog. I tend to see it more and more the further east I go. Especially out in Iowa and Missouri. Keep in mind that's the furthest east I've ever made it as far as dogs are in volved. I kind of had a hard time wrapping my head around it at first. Buying a dog based and paper work rather then how well he hunts. To each there own I guess.

[perk]

Dewey sent you a PM

[Dan Edwards]

This is kind of off topic but kind of on topic. I guess one bais I notice is the papered vs the non papered dog. I tend to see it more and more the further east I go. Especially out in Iowa and Missouri. Keep in mind that's the furthest east I've ever made it as far as dogs are in volved. I kind of had a hard time wrapping my head around it at first. Buying a dog based and paper work rather then how well he hunts. To each there own I guess.

Get further east and see how bad it gets.

[pegleg]

I send a roll of paper with every dog I sell. Gotta get that premium! Lol. Sorry guys continue