Pistol question?

[Beardawgs]

I carry a Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt, its a smaller frame than a 44 mag. and packs just as much punch. The Ruger pistol is strong so hand loads can be loaded very hot and heavy, way more than you will want to shoot. It has the energy not only to penetrate and kill, but stop a charging bear. You like six guns and the 45 Colt has some history. There are a couple different factory +P loads as well.

[Mike Leonard]

Good info Beardawgs, and the 45 LC is a favorite of mine.

For years the 45 LC was plagued with old outdated information about hi-pressure loads not working because cases would not stand up to the pressure. Most of this was started back in the 1920'2 by Elmer Keith who was a famous old gun writer who came from the black powder stone age and was having difficulty realizing the times they were changing. The old balloon type head cases indeed were weak and some blowups occurred back in the day. Ammunition companies as well as modern arms manufacturing companies knew of all this and addresses it with better designs and better material.

Elmer hailed as the Daddy of the 44 Magnum had long forsaken the 45 Long Colt in favor of the 44 Special with heavy loads. Claiming to have nearly lost a finger when a case in an old black powder colt blew up on him. Elmer might have been tipping the sour mash that evening and threw a little too much powder in that charge but it sure gave the old Colt 45 a black eye for a long time.

Anyway in modern revolvers it is no problem to honk up some rip snorting loads in the old 45 if you are so inclined. Not really needed for most work however because a good quality hard cast bullet of 250 grains or more rolling along at 1000FPS. will penetrate like crazy and tear a big hole all the way thru. I have used it on bear coming or going it just works, and why not it will drop a 2000 pound or more bull in his tracks when placed in the noggin. and when thrown thru the front side of the chest of an elk they run off a little ways sag and fold up. No on body shots no handgun is going to act like a high powered super velocity rifle that delivers all that hydrostatic shock from fluid and tissue disruption from a super high velocity missile but kill it will reliably.


Here is a good article to read about dissolving the myth of the 45 Long colt.

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/d ... e_myth.htm

[BAR BAR 2]

The 45 Colt was designed for the US Cavalry to stop a charging horse. It's a helluva lot easier to hit a horse than the man sitting on that horse. It is important to remember though, that those old Colts and the newer 'Cowboy' guns were/are built on the old patent, that was designed for black powder and not the newer and hotter burning smokeless powders. I have a Stoeger with a 4 5/8 inch barrel that I absolutely love, but I have to be sure and stick with the less powerful loads though. When I bought the gun I was emphatically warned about this and the guy at the store even showed me the box for several of the more powerful loads that had the same warning.

The 45 Colt is a great load for what it is. Up close for bear or mountain lion and it will really shine. Sure, there are probably better choices for some of the different game animals, but this round has filled alot of tags over the years. Just be careful with what you feed those guns built on the older patent.



Tex

[rich h]

This topic always does make for some interesting reading!
Like many responding on here, I like the .357 magnum a lot. Not much muzzle jump allowing for quicker recovery, too. Used to have an old Ruger Blackhawk in .357. But, there's nothing more frustrating than an empty singe action six shooter when you're in a hurry to reload.
I carried a Ruger P-90 .45 ACP for years. My thinking was...with dogs bayed up tight the .45 ACP is not going to shoot through the bear and hit a dog and in an pinch you can break the spine to maybe save a dog and if you shoot a bear on the side of the head and close range it will
drop him. But having stated all of that....the .45ACP is just a back-up not a hunting firearm.

I have a S&W .44 magnum model 629 Classic that's ported. Muzzle jump is about the same as a well balanced .357 magnum. I load 265 grain flat nosed Hornady's at a muzzle velocity at about 1,200 fps and
that's my choice for a hunting handgun.

Used a friend's .30 caliber carbine round in a Ruger single action handgun. Did the job at point blank range. Don't hear much about that caliber. Anybody got an opinion on the .30?

[Mike Leonard]

rich b,

I have some experience with this caliber in a single action and I was not impressed. Most likely it was due the first time to using factory rounds that were not designed for hunting big game. A lot of surplus ammo was available at one time, but most of this was full metal jacket.

First bear I treed for this fellow was a rather small boar of about 175 pounds but it had a beautiful blond coat and he wanted it. I tied the dogs back and he shot it at about 30 feet. I saw the bullet hit behind the shoulder a little further back than I would have liked but none the less I was sure it got into the back part of the lungs. The bear jumped and snapped at limbs and branches but didn't sag and fall. Shoot again! He did this time hitting it in the shoulder and it quit the tree. It took off like only a wounded small bear can do so there was nothing to do but cut the dogs loose. I did and they caught it within 300 yards and the fight was on. I was not carrying a gun but I knew my companion who was very heavy might not get there in time so I grabbed the gun from him and took off as fast as my legs would carry me. I got there and the ground fight was ugly but I just ran in there and head shot him to stop things. Some banged up dogs but not too bad.


This guy loved this sixshooter and he shot it well but I knew with a 158 Gr. soft point from a 357 would have hit the bear in the same place he would not have had any run left in him.

Next bear a year later for the guy and this was a dandy. A big red boar fall fat and closing in on 400 pounds. this time his shot was at about 10 feet and he did have soft point ammo. The bear comes out and takes off and again I am chasing a wounded bear from a 30 carbine round. This one got hairy as darkness overtook us and I had to follow the dogs into some bad rocks and tangles with just a mini-flashlight and my 22 Colt Woodsman pistol. The dogs finally stopped him and the fight was up against the bowl of a huge old pine. My shooter was trying to get there but he was still a long ways off. The bear was wounded as blood was coming out his nose and mouth but he was a long ways from dead. I got in close and when he made a short charge at one hound and missed he turned to go back against the tree, I reached around with the Colt and gave him three quick ones right where the head meets the neck and he folded up. Upon skinning I found that the 30 slug had only penetrated about 6" and stopped his lungs were damaged but he was going to be alive a long time before he bled out.

I told my shooter that I had a gun for him that would allow him to kill his own bear for a change. I think after he realized that the 30 let him down twice and that a 22LR had to do the cleanup on the last one it was time to try something new.

I had a very nice Ruger Bisley 41 Magnum which I had cut the barrel back to 5" and it was a good one. He bought it right from me, and although I hated to sell it because I had killed my first Boone and Crockett lion with it I felt he needed it. As far as I know he still has it and after killing his first bear with it he decided to leave the 30 for smaller stuff.

[mondomuttruner]

I've always heard the 30 carbine is a military round made to wound soldiers, not kill them. It takes up a couple more soldiers to get them off the battlefield. That said, a friend of mine used a 30 carbine for deer hunting years ago and I NEVER saw him kill a deer with 1 shot.

[Mike Leonard]

Cor Bon DPX now loads a 100 Gr. Barnes for this round that would make it more effective but it is certainly no big game round. Up close it will kill small predators or maybe a small deer which are all pretty easy to bump off with a well placed 22LR. But better leave it home for bear or anything that has any resistance to them.

Most guys buy them cuz they can by cheap bulk military 110 gr. full metal jackets thru it.

They do make a loud sharp noise!!!!

[Andyva]

I have an old blackhawk .357, I shot it some as a kid, lived in the cabinet for a while, got it out several years back, was going to take it to the bear woods, but shot at a target, and saw that it wasn't fit to take. I've shot pistols a fair amount, mainly .22, coon hunted for years with a pistol, could hit a very small target if needed, so blamed it on the gun, maybe a little blame on getting older and not having young man eyes. It went back to the cabinet.

The other day, I came across some 125 grainers in some swap items. Thought I would run a few rounds through the thing. Shot like a varmint rifle. I think in all the days of my youth, based on the company I kept, I always stuck to 158s, and with most of the company I kept, it was hot loaded 158s or even bigger. The whole time the thing liked 125s better, I guess.

My question is, do any of you have any experience with 125s on bear? I am at the point I don't care if I kill one, but go with friends, like to see one up a tree over good dogs. Only way I will shoot one is if is one of those need to save dogs situations, or fixing somebody else's mess, so it's not like I'm going to be shooting far. Would hollow points do better for not going out the other side, in tight situations?

[Mike Leonard]

125's are tremendous on light skinned game like cougar and as a stopping load they hold the highest percentage of single one shot stops on humans of any defensive handgun load known even topping the good old 45 ACP.

To save your life or a dog you will be close and you will be concentrating on the hitting the central nervous system for an immediate shutdown. It will work fine for head and neck shots but if you are trying to send that fast bullet thru too much bear you could experience premature bullet upset and minimal penetration.

Here is what I would do if you are out hunting with friends. Just throw some 158 or heavier loads in it. As you said you are not planning on killing one so accuracy at point blank life saving situations is not that big a precision concern. Just run in there and kick the dogs back and give him a couple and that will be it.

With 158's you will seldom get pass thrus even on an average sized bear.


Have fun with those 125's and shoots some chucks and they will work fine on small deer as well if you keep you shots 75 yards or less.

[Andyva]

Thanks Mike, you are probably right, at point blank accuracy isn't as critical. I've got some 180s for that matter. When given the choice of carrying something that will do a good job, and something that will do a good job and shoot accurate, I'd rather have the latter. Man never knows when he might walk up on a grouse or something. You reckon if I could get my hands on some hard cast 125s or maybe a jacketed semi-wadcutter and made some loads they would do alright

Them 180s would be lucky to stay on a sheet of typing paper at ten yards out of that gun and they weren't really that fun to shoot with those wood grips. That was another thing I liked about the 125 grain bullets, the thing felt like a .22 going off. I have shot .38s in it, never could get any accuracy with them either, don't believe I ever tried anything but 158s.

[Mike Leonard]

Go on Midway USA and get some hard casts built by Hunters Supply. The owners of that company are personal friends of mine and I spend time in their manufacturing facility and they cast them right!

[Mike Leonard]

This is a good 125, and you can run it up to 1600 FPS without a gas check.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/20461 ... -flat-nose

I would try to match the velocity of the factory HP's you are using and see how it shoots for you,
.

Good luck!