!!! The Ultimate Bobcat Dog...Part 1.5 !!!

[Jeff Eberle]

the exact same flack from "pure bred" people,

Goose just do what I do and ask them which pure bred breed fell out of the sky, because there is not a breed out there that has been created by using less then two different breeds and depending on the two used how many different breeds were used to create them and so on and so on.

[Jeff Eberle]

Not my cup of tea but if I'd a known it would of piss off this many people maybe I'd have done it

Oh man.
Split a gut on that one.

that might be because we have learned that if no one is persecuting you in some way, you probabaly are not accomplishing anything of lasting significance. It seems to be there in the life of every man who has.

Ain’t that the truth David , it may not be Dan that comes up with it, It may not even be the 2nd or 3rd guy to pickup where Dan leaves off . But thank God for guys like Dan that think good enuff is not good enuff cause I sure wouldn’t want to be running around with wooden spoke wheels on my truck.

[Goose]

the exact same flack from "pure bred" people,

Goose just do what I do and ask them which pure bred breed fell out of the sky, because there is not a breed out there that has been created by using less then two different breeds and depending on the two used how many different breeds were used to create them and so on and so on.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever or think anything less of folks who have purebred dogs registered with a club or organization, usually the ones who like to chime in and give their opinion are the ones who have owned dogs about 4 or 5 years at the max and think they have it figured out, I always ask them to name one person on the planet who is currently hunting and breeding a pack of wolves, after they sit there clueless for a minute, then my point is proven....


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[Dan McDonough]

It's like you opened the door and let some fresh air in, thanks.

[twist]

I would like to know what an ultimate cat dog is, please one of you define that for me so I can try and figure out what it is you are trying to accomplish?

[Goose]

the exact same flack from "pure bred" people,

Goose just do what I do and ask them which pure bred breed fell out of the sky, because there is not a breed out there that has been created by using less then two different breeds and depending on the two used how many different breeds were used to create them and so on and so on.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever or think anything less of folks who have purebred dogs registered with a club or organization, usually the ones who like to chime in and give their opinion are the ones who have owned dogs about 4 or 5 years at the max and think they have it figured out, I always ask them to name one person on the planet who is currently hunting and breeding a pack of wolves, after they sit there clueless for a minute, then my point is proven....


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[Jeff Eberle]

I would like to know what an ultimate cat dog is, please one of you define that for me so I can try and figure out what it is you are trying to accomplish?

Maybe you can answer your own question by answering mine. Do you own a ultimate cat dog that no matter where you put it down any state any conditions against any dog it is the best ever time with no excuse?

[al baldwin]

Dumpy Al strikes again. Al, it's what I enjoy doing. Thank God there was someone with my attitude behind the making of what ever goes into your dogs or you'd really have something to complain about.

Dan believe you misunderstood me, was not complaining at all breed as you desire. Was just thinking back on life, how fast time has passed. Purebred dogs is not anything I have a big interest in. Do wish you well in all parts of your life. Al

[twist]

Mr Eberle to answer your question I catch a very high percentage of cats I turn out on. Are they ultimate no have they been proven to catch anywhere yes. Have my dogs all over the country and Canada. There is no one who catches all cats in every condition is there some that make it look easy most of the time yes. There will NEVER be a bobcat dog that catches every time in all condions. So for one to try and create that is truely dreaming. You are welcome to come hunt with me anytime during our season and I'll let my dogs do the talking for me are they ultimate no but they do catch a very high percentage. There is nothing in this world that is perfect so to try and create that is a dream! Now please answer my question what is an ULTIMATE cat dog? Andy

[Redwood Coonhounds]

Ok so for those of you just passing through what Dan and Goose are talking about are sex linked traits. These traits are passed on from one generation to the next through the genes that determine gender. I'm sure you know that an xx chromosomal pair = female and xy = male. A really cool thing is the genotype and phenotypes that are linked to these chromosomes. But what's even cooler is once you figure out what traits are X or Y linked. Because a female passes on an X and the male only passes on the Y. So if it's a Y linked sex trait then 100% of all males from that male will exhibit the trait. And if it's a homozygous female then 100% of the males thrown will exhibit the trait. The trick is just figuring out what traits are latched onto these gender determining traits. Knowing what is linked to the X and Y chromosome can really take out some of the guesswork. Really cool stuff, I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work that went into figuring this stuff out.

Has anyone (Tanner, Dan) had any theories on what traits in hounds may be sex linked in these instances? I am very interested to hear. I would definitely be interested in hearing more of your take on this in hounds. I have heard of the concept before obviously in breeding in just about everything else, just not hounds. Or just not what whas thought to be linked anyway. I always try to keep pretty tedious track and records on my pups and my linebreedings to see if I can see anything of the sort. I can't definitively say I've seen any traits that are sex linked that are anything useful in predicting "hunting" aspects of a hound. I end up sounding like the old timers with their "three hairs & and black roof of the mouth." But I do notice only my females of a certain line tend to throw squall mouth males, and when I say that, I mean all of the males come out squall mouthed, and that also the studs seem to throw a high percentage of female pups with cowlicks on their shoulders. I've not had one with a cowlick not make a decent dog. I get a lot of piebald white face walkers too, and all of them have been pretty damn good dogs. So sometimes color can be more than skin deep in instances I guess, or more linked to other inherited traits than we think.

[Jeff Eberle]

Mr Eberle to answer your question I catch a very high percentage of cats I turn out on. Are they ultimate no have they been proven to catch anywhere yes. Have my dogs all over the country and Canada. There is no one who catches all cats in every condition is there some that make it look easy most of the time yes. There will NEVER be a bobcat dog that catches every time in all condions. So for one to try and create that is truely dreaming. You are welcome to come hunt with me anytime during our season and I'll let my dogs do the talking for me are they ultimate no but they do catch a very high percentage. There is nothing in this world that is perfect so to try and create that is a dream! Now please answer my question what is an ULTIMATE cat dog? Andy

I think if you read your reply you will answer your own question. (I catch a very high percentage of cats I turn out on ) what about the ones you don’t turn out on or the ones you don’t catch ,How do you know there is not a dog out there that can catch it ? ( are they ultimate no ) how do you know they are not ultimate if you don’t know what a ultimate cat dog is ? ( There will never be a bobcat dog that catches every time in all conditions . There is nothing in this world that is perfect so to try and create that is a dream ! ) Perfect and ultimate are two different words with two different definitions . Ever cat my dogs start I have faith in them that they will catch it I never not try any track and never pull them off if they want to work it, nope they don’t catch them all. but I do believe there is dogs out there that could come behind me and you both and catch one we can’t. I don’t know about your breeding goals but mine are full of dreams, as I’m alway shooting for a better generation with each litter. So if that don’t answer your question then I guess I can’t. As for ultimate the definition is (1) The best achievement or imaginable of its kind. Everything we take for granite today started with a dream. So I personally hope Dan and People like him never stop dreaming

[Jeff Eberle]

Ok so for those of you just passing through what Dan and Goose are talking about are sex linked traits. These traits are passed on from one generation to the next through the genes that determine gender. I'm sure you know that an xx chromosomal pair = female and xy = male. A really cool thing is the genotype and phenotypes that are linked to these chromosomes. But what's even cooler is once you figure out what traits are X or Y linked. Because a female passes on an X and the male only passes on the Y. So if it's a Y linked sex trait then 100% of all males from that male will exhibit the trait. And if it's a homozygous female then 100% of the males thrown will exhibit the trait. The trick is just figuring out what traits are latched onto these gender determining traits. Knowing what is linked to the X and Y chromosome can really take out some of the guesswork. Really cool stuff, I can't even begin to imagine the amount of work that went into figuring this stuff out.

Has anyone (Tanner, Dan) had any theories on what traits in hounds may be sex linked in these instances? I am very interested to hear. I would definitely be interested in hearing more of your take on this in hounds. I have heard of the concept before obviously in breeding in just about everything else, just not hounds. Or just not what whas thought to be linked anyway. I always try to keep pretty tedious track and records on my pups and my linebreedings to see if I can see anything of the sort. I can't definitively say I've seen any traits that are sex linked that are anything useful in predicting "hunting" aspects of a hound. I end up sounding like the old timers with their "three hairs & and black roof of the mouth." But I do notice only my females of a certain line tend to throw squall mouth males, and when I say that, I mean all of the males come out squall mouthed, and that also the studs seem to throw a high percentage of female pups with cowlicks on their shoulders. I've not had one with a cowlick not make a decent dog. I get a lot of piebald white face walkers too, and all of them have been pretty damn good dogs. So sometimes color can be more than skin deep in instances I guess, or more linked to other inherited traits than we think.

I have seen the color markings and cowlicks on the shoulder with the same result as you are talking about in two different lines of dogs I have hunted over the years.

[Tanner Peyton]

Cassandra,
I wish I knew what traits are linked to what gender determining chromosomes in the dog world but I haven't got a clue. In fact I couldn't tell you the first thing about dog breeding. Again, I wish I could and maybe some I'll get the chance to learn. But in till then I just read all I can.

I do know there are documented genotypes linked to both x and y chromosomes in almost all mammals. Geans that effect how we see and react to the world around us.

[al baldwin]

I am certainly no expert on the x&o of breeding, however I do realize selecting parents that have proven generations of good hounds behind them is ones best chance of producing good hounds. Those parents don/t have to be purebred, but if they are it can/t hurt in my opinion. Starting a breeding program without these traits in the parents is certainly going to be a difficult journey. However, if you enjoy the challenge go for it. Al

[Dan McDonough]

There's quite a pool of experiences here. If anyone has memory of a cross that involved one treeing breed that was bred to one non-treeing breed, intentional or accidental. The resulting observations would be very useful. You don't have to be familiar with the inner workings of genetics to post your observations. "We" will work that out.

Here's some questions to get things rolling.

1. Which is responsible for the treeing? Male, female or both.

2. In an outcross, where one of the pair is a treeing breed and one of the pair is a non-treeing breed. Which of the pair would you prefer to have be the treeing bred member.

3. Add to this list please...