!!! The Ultimate Bobcat Dog...Part 1.5 !!!

[mark]

Where else can you get a Whippet,Jesus,and the stock market involved in breeding a hound dog? Lmao

[Willyrockhill]

Dan, I have enjoyed reading your posts and find what you are doing very interesting. I set out on a very similar quest some years back and am still playing the game. I started from stock that if I explained here people would laugh. I'm not going to get into why I chose the foundation dogs that I did but I have my reasons. My foundation stud was a mountain cur and the females I started with were basically just yard dogs that had some special traits. That stud dog was the only dog in the mix for a while that had any tree in him. The females not so much. I will say that the pups I have now tree hard and that one male is where it all came from so I know that treeing ability will be passed down on the male side. These pups are pretty mixed up at this point and they are doing extremely well. They have mountain cur, BC, terrier, American bulldog, and lab all in the mix. The last generation pups caught an extremely high percentage of bobcats turned out on last winter at a little over a year old but one of the pups will hardly run a lion. Im very happy with the results so far and will continue what I'm doing. I expect the next batch will be even better. I would like to be on the waiting list for a pup when u get things figured out. Best of luck

[Dan McDonough]

Andy, to answer your question on a definition of Ultimate Bobcat Dog is according to Dan, I'd refer you to the original post on this thread. He states pretty clearly his goal. I think it is a pretty good description. I have zero interest personally in spending the hours or money and headaches Dan is going thru doing this. I do however think any dog guy could learn something here. Whether or not it'd be of any use to us is immaterial. I like learning, especially if I spend my time on anything. I hope Dan keeps going on his project and keeps us up on it.

rockytrails- Thank you for reading that.

[Dan McDonough]

Dan, I have enjoyed reading your posts and find what you are doing very interesting. I set out on a very similar quest some years back and am still playing the game. I started from stock that if I explained here people would laugh. I'm not going to get into why I chose the foundation dogs that I did but I have my reasons. My foundation stud was a mountain cur and the females I started with were basically just yard dogs that had some special traits. That stud dog was the only dog in the mix for a while that had any tree in him. The females not so much. I will say that the pups I have now tree hard and that one male is where it all came from so I know that treeing ability will be passed down on the male side. These pups are pretty mixed up at this point and they are doing extremely well. They have mountain cur, BC, terrier, American bulldog, and lab all in the mix. The last generation pups caught an extremely high percentage of bobcats turned out on last winter at a little over a year old but one of the pups will hardly run a lion. Im very happy with the results so far and will continue what I'm doing. I expect the next batch will be even better. I would like to be on the waiting list for a pup when u get things figured out. Best of luck

Golden. Thanks for that. That's what I'm seeing also. I'm glad too, because it really makes things a lot more simple and it makes it much easier to augment the shape of the pups without screwing up the tree.

[Dan McDonough]

A couple of things. The project sure ain't making any money and never will. I charge money for most of my pups to offset the summer food bill. Keeping a pack this size is expensive, on food alone. Also, I have no plans to turn this into a profit machine. First, I don't think it's possible. Secondly, there are a million ways to make money faster that don't have anything to do with dogs. I simply want to go on record saying that. I'm aware that most all of you are already aware of the costs of being a houndsmen.

Next, Vicki is finally in heat. She skipped a cycle but the pups will be born under the sign of Virgo and that's a good thing. I haven't even gotten into that side of things on this thread. There's a lot more to Astrology and dogs than most would even begin to imagine. God didn't set the stars where they are for no reason. Anyhow, Vicki will be staying with one of my Leps. for a bit. 2.0 is about to being!

[david]

.

[twist]

If everyone thought the same it sure would be boring! Ill keep a close eye on this post and see when that ultimate cat dog is ready for trial. There have been backyard breeders crossing all kinds of dogs for years don't you think the ultimate cat dog would be out there already if possible? Just a thought. Andy

[Dan McDonough]

Thanks David, you'll always be welcome wherever I am.

[Cowboyvon]

Well thank you Mr Eberle and David for calling me out on a post I say is recreating the wheel. Didn't know you two were Dans moniitors. Please show me were I've been negative to either one of you if so I sure do apolagize. Sure hope this experiment works so one day you can buy that ultimate bobcat dog. Again you are both welcome to come for a hunt with me you might just enjoy it I sure enjoy meeting new hound hunters. Andy

I wonder how many times the wheel has been improved on since Fred Flintstone.

I wonder how many times the telephone has been improved on since two cans on a string?

Don't re-invent the wheel? Really?

Every dog breed I have studied would not exist without some re-inventing and mixing of available gene pools at some point.

Thanks for the invitation to come hunt Andy. I appreciate it as always.

"Dan's monitors"?

Dan is a freind of mine. I enjoy encouraging my friends toward succeeding at whatever it is they put their hand to. Even if it is something I would not do myself.

I know Dan well enough to know that he is always studying. He puts more time studying, reading, sucking in knowledge in one week than I probably do in a year. His mind won't rest. And he has an excitement about life because there is so much he wants to learn and know and do. I sense this regret in him that life is too short. Not because he wants to keep living, but because he wants to keep learning and testing exciting new ideas.

Beside being a freind of mine, Dan thinks "outside the box". I find people who think outside the box interesting and refreshing. Often I don't agree with them. But I like to encourage them in their creativity, because I see it as a gift.

Status quo is boring to a mind like that. It is not meant as an insult to me or you anyone else.

So, Andy, Dan doesn't need any help from me, and he probably wishes I would shut up.

But it seems to me you are trying to discourage my friend who thinks outside the box. And that is why I question your motives. It is hard for me to understand some one who would just discourage some one because they enjoy discouraging people. So I look for a deeper motive. I have my ideas why you would do that and I think Jeff has his ideas why you would do that, and others who don't say anything have their ideas why you would do that.

But the beautiful reality is that you are playing a very important role in Dan's endeavor.

Every innovative thinker in history had detractors who served to strengthen their resolve and pushed them toward success. It makes it so much harder for them to quit when they have people like you out there giving them such a powerful reason to press on toward success.

For some gifted people it becomes nearly impossible to quit while people are mocking them or telling them it can't be done.

This has been proven over and over throughout history.

Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team

Walt Disney was fired from the Kansas City Star in 1919 because his editor said he "lacked imagination and had no good ideas"

The concert hall manager at the Grand Ole Opry told Elvis Presley he should go home and go back to driving trucks.

1867 Thomas Edison was fired from Western Union for destructive incompetence.

Steve Jobs was fired from his own company.

Bill Gates dropped out of college

Albert Einstein couldn't speak until he was four, or read until he was seven and was expelled from school.

Charles Darwin was called lazy and too dreamy.

Issac Newton did not thrive in school and when put in charge of the family farm, failed miserably.

Vincent Van Gogh: "It’s hard to believe, but during his lifetime Van Gogh received hardly any acclaim for his work. While alive, he only sold one of his paintings, and that was to a friend for a very small amount of money. Despite this, he continued working throughout his life, never seeing success himself, though his paintings now are worth hundreds of millions of dollars."


"When Abraham Lincoln was young and entered war, he entered as a Captain but came back as a much lower Private. Later on, he tried to start up a ton of businesses, all of which failed, and before becoming president, he lost several runs for public office"

And the list could go on and on to include most people who have improved our lives through innovative thinking and doing.

Ultimately if Lester Nance had listened to discouraging words like yours Andy, you would not have the dogs you have today.

Lester Nance was an innovator who thought outside the box.

Not all innovators are fortunate enough to bless hundreds or thousands who come after them.

But some are.

That is why I like to encourage them and deflect discouragement when I can. I might not even understand why they do what they are doing...

but they understand it.

And maybe someday I will also.

And ultimately, if Dan enjoys what he is doing with his dogs, that is reason enough for me. In that way, he is exactly like you if you also enjoy your dogs.

Great post ... Made me feel like I still have a chance

[bearsnva]

Postby mark » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:12 pm

Where else can you get a Whippet,Jesus,and the stock market involved in breeding a hound dog? Lmao

Now that is funny!! And also how very true. Great post.

[Dan McDonough]

If anyone would like a whippet for hunting, I'd be happy to spend some time helping folks get one. I don't have them anymore because it's a bit cold here and the snow gets to deep for them here too. I do however know a few breeders (race bred) that will sell to hunters. There are very few whippet breeders that will let one go to a hunter and I'd really like to see enough get out there so that "we" don't have to ask for one outside of the hunting community. I have a great deal of respect for the whippets and I think nearly everyone that hasn't had the chance to hunt with a good whippet would feel the same way. There's way more dog there than most would assume.

Unfortunately, it's just not a good idea to post the names of people that will sell to hunters. Those people end up catching so much heat from the rest of the whippet community and I don't want to be the cause of that.

507-261-9121

[merlo_105]

This Ultimate Dog still hasn't been made? Come on already. Ready to throw some bitcoin down on a prospect. All joking a side hope yuh get there with what your doing. But for arguments sake why not try to better them leopards? Make them the ultimate leopard? Any who good read. Funny people talking about reinventing the wheel I would look at it as modifying maybe adding spikes. Good luck keep us posted

[david]

It is interesting to me that Dan fits this type of inventors who experiment and end up discovering something different from the goal, but useful to someone else.

Dan is the only breeder in history of ukc to make the four fastest spots in the All American dog catagory. (Crossbred dogs: invented in America), Fast C.A.T.
(Drag racing dogs, essentially).

The same dog that is number one in fast cat is 5th in the world in dock diving.

And a whippet he sold to a sports dog person in California has already made that woman $35,000.00

If he stopped right now and completely abandoned the project, he has already accomplished more in the dog world than I ever will.

[Dan McDonough]

You got that right! I am leaving successes in my wake, but I don't have many of my own yet. I abandoned the whippets in great part, because of my commitment to this project. Truth is, if I only had that first whippet for the rest of my life, I'd be pleased as punch. He is in my top three favorite dogs of all time, believe it or not.

Anyhow, the successes of some of the lurchers I've owned or bred are pretty cool. I haven't covered any of that here because it's a little off topic but it deserves attention.

I will say one thing here and anywhere. I'm shocked that lurchers aren't the most popular breed of dog in the USA. Why own a lab for ducks when you can have a dog that retrieves birds, catches rabbits, coon hunts, catches deer, etc., etc., etc.

Now, I realize that a consistent line of treeing lurchers has not been made anywhere in the world yet, but that would be A LOT easier than this Ultimate Bobcat Dog project. You can take that to the bank! In fact, I have a Mtn. Cur x Stag male that I don't really want because he's got flat feet. Don't tell him that because he doesn't know it. I keep pitching him out with traffic around and in other sticky situations where I don't want my "valueable" dogs going, and he keeps learning and continuing to impress. He's a tree dog and to say he likes to hunt is a gross understatement.

I think that it would be rather easy to use a variety of tree dogs of all types and sizes along with a whippet, stag or greyhound and a little collie blood, and get a wide variety of extraordinarily useful dogs.

In the UK, the most popular type of lurcher over the last 100 years has been the Border Collie x Greyhound on the larger side. On the smaller side it's been the Bedlington Terrier x Whippet cross.

Those folks, to my knowlege, have never bred for treeing and loath a dog that makes any noise for any reason. Well, we don't have to sneak around much in the USA and we do love a tree dog here. The possabilities would be endless really.

If I came up with a dog that you could cat hunt, coon hunt, duck hunt, pheasant hunt, squirrel hunt, blood trail, have in the house and ask it to do all of those things interchangeably, would you want one? Well, here's the good news. I don't think that dog is all that hard to make. At least, not if you see dogs the way I do, and I have proof.

There's a girl named Katie that has a Whippet x BC female named Juice. Juice does flyball, dock diving and many other sport-dog type of activities. She can seemlessly move from one thing to another and to my knowlege, Juice is very near world record times in much of what she does. Juice was brought up right and Katie is one motivated dog owner. Most every weekend they are doing something at some meet somewhere. While I don't know if Juice is any good at hunting, I'm going to bet that she is.

Some of Katie's family lives near me and when Katie gets together with them, Katie stops by for a visit. I took Katie and Juice out for a quick run down a place I call the Rabbit Road. Juice picked up that game in about 15 mins.

Juice is a fine example of a super smart dog with an enormous amount of "I'll Do It!" Imagine for one second, putting a nose, locate and tree with a dog like Juice...you've just imagined the ultimate bobcat dog and you may have also seen America's new favorite dog. At least American hunters anyway. It's already true for the sport-dog world. If your going to be on top there, you either have a BC based lurcher or a Belgian Malinois.

Now, if your thinking the way I do, and realize that Mali's are very vocal dogs to begin with, you might be trying to find the best place to get a Mali and a GH. You'll likely be the first if you do because good Mali pups are $1800 and there's not many houndsmen that will shell out that kind of cash for an "off breed" pup, just to try out a hunch from some lunatic's thread on the internet. Unfortunately, trying things like this are rare and it's one of the greatest limitations of the bobcat dog world. That's not really a bad thing for me since I started this thread in hopes of being the first. But really, I get more satisfaction watching the wake of success that would not have happened if David had not dared to ask the driving question that started this all.

You have to admit, this is all a lot of fun for a dog man. It's like playing out the great adventures we would all think of doing when we grew up some day. For the people that are able to enjoy the world that way, this really is a dream happening in real time.

I'm just ranting here because I'm board waiting for my first breeding of a Leopard Hound to a BC x Stag female that is supposed to make the first litter of a possible Ultimate Bobcat Dog and I don't have anything else to report until those pups get here.

[KY Swamp Beagler]

Good luck, Dan. I’m enjoying the journey. Thanks for sharing.