Whats Your perfect hunting Saddle?

Dan V · Post by **Dan V** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:31 pm

Ellensburg, gullet is 8.5 X 6 .25 fits the real steep withered horses and does a decent job on the mutton withered ones as well. The swells are 14", they are there when you need them and dont get in the way of anything when you dont need em. I had a full double riggin on it originally, great for roping big stuff but did not like how it settled on some horses. Had it switched out to a 7/8 flat plate. The taps are a must in some country as your boots would be shredded in no time. The saddle was made by John Herron in Chino Valley, AZ

It is great to punch cows in. But since this is about hunting, I have a set of saddle bags that are gusseted and hold a lot of stuff while hunting. The one beef I have is always trying to find a better way to hang a rifle scabbard. I hate having it under my knee, with the butt of the rifle towards the rear of the horse. I usually end up with it butt up hanging off the front end.

R Severe · Post by **R Severe** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:39 am

Good looking rig, I allways like looking at working gear from different areas.
I know what you mean about the barrel under your leg, I went to a contender carbine. I carry it butt forward and just the tip on the barrel goes under my leg right about ancle level.

Got some pictures on photo bucket at last.
The first is a wade tree and finished saddle. This is my daugters saddle and is a lightweight. 29 lbs when new with a 15"seat.

The second picture is of a ellensburg with all the bells & wistles. A little to fancy for a hunting saddle. I think it was around 15 1/2" Felt awful good to sit in. Wished I could aford 2, problem would be solved.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:30 pm

Some more fine looking rigs Robin.I don't know it just must be me but I don't have a problem with my guns mounted butt to rear right side. I make sure that the butt is way back under my saddle bag on that side and I have extra rings in my saddles, but my little 92 & 94 carbines are there and I never notice them unless I am riding a big old fat horse and that doesn't happen much around here. I also carry my 30-06 Springfield with a 22" barrel complete with a low mounted 1-3/4to 5 Leupold scope and never feel it either. I wish I could post photos like I use to I would show you my methods. I am long legged for my height but it doesn't bother me and the dudes I put in the saddle to follow me complain about a lot of things but not the rifle.

If you carry a rifle butt forward in Little Joe Cartwright fashion in this country you will have a broken rifle stock pretty darn soon when following the lion dogs.

R Severe · Post by **R Severe** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:22 am

Mike, I'd like a picture of your outfit when your following the dogs. I've never been 100% satisfied with what I've come up with.
My carbine is a lot shorter than the marlin pictured with the customers saddle. It's recoil pad it right in front of my horn and I just brace it with my hand in the brush ( no junipers where I've been hunting horseback)
I've been flinging sticks at stuff lately and that a whole new set of problems :lol:

The times I've used horses cat hunting have been rare and I have packed a pistol like I do when footback :oops:

When I have used horses we had them sharpshod with boreum points and still had heck on the ice.
I never was able to get a horse to where the cats treed.

Roy Auwen · Post by **Roy Auwen** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:19 pm

I am with mike, rear mounted.
But moose hunting in canada, i lost my rifle out of the scabarde twice that way, so mounted it forward and watched the stock.
Had the rifle and got the moose.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:12 pm

Robin I will send you a picture attached to a private e-mail.

Roy I know what you mean about losing guns. Had a elk hunter a few years back get ready to step off and knock down a bull and by golly his fancy 300 Weatherby was not there. It was in a custom scabbard with a buckle on cover but that old cannon with it's 26" tube and they are long as a well rope and heavy as an anvil just got hooked and went bye bye. Oh he got his elk because somebody had a 30-06 that was tethered properly in it's scabbard, but beleive it or not they hunted all over that mountain and trailed them horse tracks over and over and never found that Weatherby. I reckon it hooked on the sling on a real springy limb and it flung it out of there on a side hill and it is either covered with rubble or maybe hanging in a tree some place. I suppose sombody will happen on it one day as a pile of rust but according to the ads the Leupold scope should still be good as new. Ha! Ha!

No remove the slings and stick them in a saddle bag, and punch a hole in the scabbard itself and run a piggen string thru it and loopp that over the rifle stock and just take a quick wrap and a hooey around it and there is no way it will get yanked out without tearing scabbard and all off and that usually won't happen. It just takes a second to slip the rope and pull the gun so you really don't lose any time. I get a kick out of seening these guys thinking they are going to come to a sliding stop and pull that rifle in the same motion like John Wayne and step off a shooting. Don't do it! Calmly stop your horse dismount and secure the animal or hand the reins off, and then remove you rifle carefully from the dismount side for big game hunting. I usually carry my carbines on the right side and that is just a balance factor I have plenty of time to get them if I need them.

Dan V · Post by **Dan V** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:41 pm

A question for you guys who prefer slick fork saddles:
Why do you like them better than a swell fork saddle?
And if you like the slick fork/ bucking roll combo, why not just have swells that are already built into the tree and saddle?

I have rode both. I started out in the Idaho country under the influence of more buckaroo type gear, later spent years punching cows in AZ and adopted that style of saddle and chaps.

I had a palomino horse blow up and kiss his own a$$ one day. I was riding a slick fork saddle with bucking rolls. I was really lifting and reaching trying to stay locked in. Well, I lifted a little too much and it ripped the screw out of the tree that the bucking roll was attached with. Next thing I knew that bucking roll was right in the middle of my seat and I came down on it hard, several times before I could get it out of the way. I still have no idea how I stayed on that horse after having the equvilent of being kicked in the cahones by an olympic soccer player several times. Anyway, somehow I did. I later put a lot larger and deeper screws into those things and later tradded it off when I had a swell fork saddle built.

R Severe · Post by **R Severe** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:02 pm

Dan
I'm not a huge fan of the slick fork on colts or broncs. A good set of buck rolls can sometimes save you but not always. I have lost a screw at just the wrong time myself, dang I was making a good ride till then :lol:

If you were to compare the two trees there are some differences. One is the weight, if your tree maker uses old growth fir you can get the tree alone in a couple pounds lighter than the swell forked tree like the ellensburg. A manganees bronz horn alone adds 1 1/2 lbs
The true wade bar is the same lenth as the ellensburg but is wider and displaces more weight. The wade bar is more pointed and you do have to watch that on some horses.

The biggest difference as far as a working cowboys saddle is that the ellensburgs horn base is about 3/4 to 1" higher than the true wade horn base. This means more leverage on your horses withers when roping. Not a big deal in the branding pen on a few calves but starts to become a big deal on some horses with heavy cattle or guys who rope calves for half a day at a time. The roper bar is about 1 1/4 longer than the wade or ellensburg, good for spreading out the jerk on a rope. The wade with it's wider bar does this almost as well but is still short enough to stay outta the kidnys.

Not as big of a difference on some of the trees out there that treemakers are calling wades. The ellensburg may beat them all hollow as a working saddle.
RS

Cold Track · Post by **Cold Track** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:26 am

Dan V., I'll grab my rope, that's a good night latch to help prevent getting bucked down. I prefer a slick fork, I think it's easy on your horse when roping cows and bulls, and besides it hurts like hell when your rope pops off a swell and welts your leg.

Dan V · Post by **Dan V** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:19 pm

Cold track, I hear you on the night latch. I use a piggin string folded in half and then run it through the gullet and tie it back onto it's self. Knock on wood, I have never been bucked off when I was able to get a hold of my night latch. I have had some counterfiet horses that totaly catch you by surprise and I've never even had a chance of grabbing it and ended up buying some real estate with my a$$ (more than once). The night latch has saved my butt. I can ride most of them without it, but I can spur them so much harder with it.

R Severe,
Some good info on those trees, thanks. The leverage thing becomes huge with the base of the horn height. I'll take the taller height with a full double or 7/8 riggin, over a shorter height and a further back front riggin and a loose back cinch. That loose back cinch that you see so many people ride with can lead to some horrible lever action when roping. It seems like most of the wade type saddles have an almost centerfire riggin.

Do you have any expirience with 8"X6.5" gullet measurements? I'm getting ready to order a new saddle and was going to put that front end on an Ellensburg or Association with 14.5 inch swells.

R Severe · Post by **R Severe** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:52 pm

Dan
I agree with you on the rigging position, my favorite is 7/8'sKeeps the cinch ring back far enough but still pretty close to in line with the horn base for roping.
Full double and 3/4 or farther back creats a battle with the bars in a tree, it wants to sit were the bars tell it to and the cinch wants to sit where the ponys belly tells it to.

I don't measure gullets much because bars have different shapes and the fork for each tree style takes that into acount. Thats the way I was taught
and my dad didn't know what a gullet measured ether. If someone wanted the bars to be a little wider in front we would change the front and back of a gullet a hair. If they wanted the bar to flair more we'd just widen the front of the gullet.

Not much help I know, but if your saddlemaker & treemaker is a constant
Just have him change what you need for your horses. RS

Dan V · Post by **Dan V** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:44 pm

R Severe,
I was just over in Eastern Oregon today. I picked up a horse from a ranch north of Farewell Bend. I got a kink in my neck looking straight up at that herd on the hill. That country is steeper than the back of my head.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:11 pm

A plastic covered 1" dog collar makes a pretty good night latch when you are in a pinch. LOL!

Funny deal: I was lion hunting and had a freind along with me who is an ok rider for a city type guy but not a real hand. Well I put him on my little sorrel Dry Doc. gelding that is just a good getting around tough little son of a gun and a real hunting horse. He has a super handle on him and will slide stop , spin 360's and is really light. Well I ride him in a half breed but you just don't have to be on his mouth at all. So when I let sombody else ride him I have a low port Greg Darnell loose cheek that I put on him with a real lose curb strap because I don't want them getting on his bars. Well I am up ahead on my old gray horse just looking for tracks and watching the dogs and this fellow is plodding along behind me. Well he does't like to go anywhere without his back pack with his cameras and lunch and survival stuff and the kitchen sink in it so he ties it on behind the saddle. Well I am going along there and I hear a noise behind me and I look back and here is this little red horse just broke slick in two. I mean head bogged between his legs and just kissing his behind and growling and grunting like a gut shot griz. Well this back pack had come loose and was down over the side and it must have hit all of a sudden right between Shadow's legs and he exploded. Well this guy just sets up there and has a little worried look on his face but he just stays right in the middle of him like nobody's business. I mean he never pulled up on him or did a thing he just sat there like he was on that little red horse outside of Wal Mart that you plug quarters in and rode him. Well I put the spurs to old Gus and dived in there and got his head up and stopped him. I looked at this guy and he is sort of pale looking but no big deal. I said man Larry that was a hell of a ride you just made where did you learn that? He said well I didn't know what to do so I just figured I would clamp my legs and try to stay on top and not land in the cactus or rocks. What's up with that? I would have either got bucked off or dislocated my arm trying to get the nags head up and he just sat there sort of like the old song the (Zebra Dun)like a summer boarder just waiting for his hash.. LOL!

Say you are talking about horn height and leverage on roping big cattle you hit on an important point that a lot of todays ropers don't think about.

Most of them want these great big old 16 plus hand horses to rope steers from. Well figure the rope angle from a steer's head to that back and how much steeper it is on a taller horse. Now I will give you that a big horse is better for that kind of work but sort of like my old Uncle use to say you can't tell how big a horse is by the daylight underneath him, you tell when you pull that cinch around him and see what you have inside of that. I have a Sugar Bars/ Leo bred mare that is just a shade over 14.2 hands high but has a heart girth that is huge and a hip that will blow your mind. Her center of gravity is low but you can rope a big old wild cow on her and just point her in the other direction and the cow is coming along. I mean even if it is on it's side it is coming along, she is scary strong and doesn't even grunt at it. Now that's a big horse!

sow flat slim · Post by **sow flat slim** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:43 pm

Dan V · Post by **Dan V** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:31 pm

RS, I was looking at the picture of your daughter's saddle and noticed it had in-skirt riggin. I have been thinking about having a light weight saddle built that a woman or a kid can lift a little easier, and thought that would be a way to ruduce weight. Do you like the in-skirt riggin?