Bears outrunning Dogs

Lonewolf · Post by **Lonewolf** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:49 am

The stories, I have been reading and the bear you have talked about are the one wich can turn a pack from so so bear dogs into great one's or they can turn them just into another maybe dog. When you get in on this type of bear and get one down for the dogs their confidence grows in themselves and you. The opposite happens if time after time no one comes to help them out they loose their confidence on mean bear's and give it up. This doesn't mean they won't catch bear's, They just won't have as high of a catch rate as the one's that will stick with a mean bear. This is only true if the handler is willing to do what ever it takes to get his part done for the dogs. The handler better be willing to crawl through or into anything for his dogs.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:28 pm

It does seem reasonable to me that too much contact with those mean bears may well weaken the resolve of a good pack of bear dogs. And when I say that I'm talking about those bears that will pile on a dog or try time after time to run him down. Bears like that know which dogs to pick on to run the pack off, and that is the pack leader and/or usually the most gritty dogs of the pack--break those dogs will and the others will follow them out of the woods.

Luckily I haven't had too many encounters with bears like that and those events are often time spread out over time. Ten ot twelve years ago I use to only hunt three or four hounds on a bear but now days I bout always send six to eight and they have plenty of help to turn or break a mean bear.

Personally I believe those bear jumps are a mental game between the hounds and the bear. If the bear wins the bully bluff early on it's over....but if the hounds win it then it's over for that bear!

ike :lol:

bob baldwin jr · Post by **bob baldwin jr** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:12 pm

IKE: At what point does a bully bluff turn into a BAD-ASS Mean Bear ????
As an example Our buddies Have lost 3 hounds in las 5 years One that I was with them and the other 2 were JR or just started hounds. Defineately not the Alpha hound or pack leader.All 3 killed were not the closest to the bear. In fact the one I was on was was probably the furthest one away. In Maine we are only allowed to hunt 4 hounds at a time. I honestly feel that the one I witnessed get killed was Trying to figure out what the other 3 were going to do as that was only the 4th bear he had been on. On a bayed bear I know everything and everybody gets caught up in the moment. But you would think the bear would have chose a closer hound. One bite on the hounds neck is all it took. I shot the bear at about 10 feet turned out to be a dry sow weighed 185 dressed out.Bear hunting with hounds you just never know what is going to happen. Was it stupid Dog ??? Mean -Ass bear ??? Us not doing our JOB right??? It was probably the wrong thing to get that close to the bear but What other choice would we have had???Did not have to change my drawers but probably came close to it. I still cringe everytime I think of it.

Catch · Post by **Catch** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:41 pm

what????

Where do you guys find all these bad bear? I must be the luckiest guy on this planet. I just turn the dogs loose and walk to the tree. As far as the four dog law in Maine. I have found you will tree more bear with three or four hounds than a truck load. But I have to remind myself I run bear dogs that are born with confidence and never get scared!

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:55 pm

I know what you mean catch, cause I've been looking for a set of dog spirs to put on my hounds so they could mark that bear when they climb on and ride him to the tree! I'll try and get some video of that and put it on my next DVD........

ike :wink:

bob baldwin jr · Post by **bob baldwin jr** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:28 pm

Catch : The 3 instances I am referring to Happened in Brownville ,Sebois and unincorporated T5R9. I need to further explain that I have a camp up there and will soon be retiring to Brownville. My bear hunting buddies each has there own pack of hounds and stay at my camp.during bear season. I guess if you took the total of chases on bear per guy per season it would probably be 15 chases per guy times 3 guys for past 5 years That comes out to about 225 chases of that probably 80% ended up treed , some were lost , maybe 5% bayed up that still leaves abot 10 on the ground bayed up . I do not know if that is a high number or not . Any time you lose a hound is bad. Of these totals remember that in most instances once treed chase is off gather up the hounds call it a day or try again if time remaining .It takes a large bear generally over 300lbs to make one of the guys kill it .They would prefer to let live and run another day.
I do have to agree with some of your points ,The older I get the more I like walking to the tree.Much prefer the ATV though. If not triggering off treed I do feel a sense of obligation to make our presence known ASAP.
" But I have to remind myself that I run bear dogs that are born with confidence and never run scared " What breed and bloodline would that be??? I will never knock another mans hounds nor care to . Some of the guys hounds are in my mind close to useless don't have a nationally known bloodline but that is the best they can afford or put money into. They arehappy with what they got and What else can I say???
With just getting my own pack started Maybe I got a few more bucks than Paul but I won't knock him either Hard to find a good houndsman that can COOK and DO THE DISHES HA !! SORRY PAUL
Catch what would you suggest that I start my pack with??
Where are you hunting Bear??

Lonewolf · Post by **Lonewolf** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:43 pm

This is about a mean bear which killed a very good dog of mine two years ago. My brother and I was hunting an older gentlemen trying to get him a bear. The first day out we treed this nice boar jet black weighing aroun 350lb. We were hunting in alot of brush with pockeets of timber and oaks, it was a typical race fom start to tree. This all changed when we where trying to get this guy to the tree. He wasn't in very good shape. Just as we where about to get to the tree, he ran out of gas. The bear was treed in a pine in the middle of a brush patch. The last 20 yrds. was crawling on our hands and knees. The bear looked at us and down he came and the fight was on. The next thing we see is the bear climbing back up the tree. The bear didn't stay long and down he came his way out with just two dogs left on him. The two dogs treed him again just as we got within 30 yrds. the bear came out and ran down my dog and was gone again. I wasn't ever able to get a shot on him through the brush. The dogs diaphram was torn away from his ribs the vet put him down. The next day went back with 5 dogs and a younger kid to shoot. Started a nice track in the same spot as the day before. The race took the same path but this time the bear didn't tree. He stayed on the ground and fought, again just as we where closing in the bear. He would move not far, but 100yrds. on your hands and knees seems like along ways. He caught another dog chewed him pretty good and another gave up the chase at the same time. The other three stayed on him and bayed him up in the brush again. My brother and the kid snuck in on them. They could see the dogs about 10ft. in front of them but no bear. Greg was trying to figure out what was on when the bear got tired of waiting for the next dog to ambush and stuck his head out of the brush only about 15ft away. Greg had the kid place a good head shot on the bear and the fight was over. This bear was jet black, pretty sure the same one from the day before which killed the dog. I still believe this type of hunt are the ones which really help the dogs. The one which gave it up isn't in my pack anymore looked good on certain bears but not all bears.

Nolte · Post by **Nolte** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:59 pm

Ike wrote:A couple years back a buddy of mine gave me one of those bear killing plott dogs. My idea in taking that hound was to see if he'd run with my dogs and help provide a little more teeth action when needed. Only seen one bear stay on the ground with those dogs since I had the plott dog, and that bear had a leg shot out from under it and couldn't climb--not that it didn't try, but three or four dogs would pul it out when it did try.

Seriously Dude, don't start drinking that kool-aid and toting the plott flag, it will be more than I can bare. You know I've never been turned down Marissa Miller either, but that knowledge and a quarter might buy you a cup of coffee.

Some bear just don't tree period. If it ain't happenin with your 6 best, another dozen ain't going to change the fact. I don't have any sort of super pack to base my theory on, but I've seen a few pretty good dogs in action. Plus, I can't get on the hopper and phone in some 6-pack of superstars so I usually just dance with who I brought.

My thoughts are this and I look at it this way. I base my decision on statistics. Either someone out there has an all world pack that has NEVER had a bear stay on the ground, OR they just haven't been on that one rank mean ass bear that won't tree. My guess is it's the latter.

I've found with dogs that it's wise to NEVER use the terms Always, Every, or Never cause they will make you a liar quicker than you can spit those words out.

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:28 pm

Nolte wrote:Seriously Dude, don't start drinking that kool-aid and toting the plott flag, it will be more than I can bare. You know I've never been turned down Marissa Miller either, but that knowledge and a quarter might buy you a cup of coffee.

Some bear just don't tree period. If it ain't happenin with your 6 best, another dozen ain't going to change the fact. I don't have any sort of super pack to base my theory on, but I've seen a few pretty good dogs in action. Plus, I can't get on the hopper and phone in some 6-pack of superstars so I usually just dance with who I brought.

My thoughts are this and I look at it this way. I base my decision on statistics. Either someone out there has an all world pack that has NEVER had a bear stay on the ground, OR they just haven't been on that one rank mean ass bear that won't tree. My guess is it's the latter.

I've found with dogs that it's wise to NEVER use the terms Always, Every, or Never cause they will make you a liar quicker than you can spit those words out.

Sorry if you haven't learned to sort out sarcasm yet nolte but gee, get a life buds.......I just threw in that plott shit for people like you. So did you take too many Viagra today cause I heard lots of people are taking it for reasons other than sex. I'd pick everything you've said apart but who really cares nolte. Like I've said in the past, the proof of the poodling is in the eating and I get my share! Leave it up to folks like you to start a pissing contest, and that's probably where the Viagra comes in huh?

And I don't appreciate you calling me a liar Nolte, but if that's where you want to go then you know I'll fire back with both barrels and take you there DUDE!

Tree'em if you got'em,
ike

pete richardson · Post by **pete richardson** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:06 am

I've found with dogs that it's wise to NEVER use the terms Always, Every, or Never cause they will make you a liar quicker than you can spit those words out.

theres some real wisdom

never was a horse that couldn't be rode, or a rider that couldn't be throwed--

i think that may apply too

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:15 am

Yea, ol' notle is plum full of it ain't he pete? :wink:

hell sakes, if it wasn't for people like him we probably wouldn't know nothin huh? :lol:

Merry Christmas pete :beer

ike

Nolte · Post by **Nolte** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:43 pm

Ike wrote:That bear came around through the oak at about a hundred and fifty yards, and had those two dogs only feet behind it. I was pissed about then and grabbed my backup .300 Weatherby from the back seat and handed it to my hunter. Shoot that damn thing I told him!

Well, the hunter laid over the hood of my truck and never squeezed the trigger....then raised up and told me he was afraid of hitting the hounds. By then it was late afternoon and nearly evening and when the bear crossed the road my last two hounds quit as well.

Sorry Dude, it's comments like this that contradict everything I've ever seen hunting. Not One bear hunter I know here would recommend attempting a shot at 150 yards on a bayed bear. Not one. In fact you could cut that down to 20 yards and that would probably be pushing the upper end, cause most times where we hunt you can't see that far. I've carried dogs out of the woods that have been shot on a bayed bear and hope to never do it again.

I've never called you a liar, just an idiot. I'm sure you get your fair share of pudding but your problem is that you get a snack pack pudding cup and then tell everybody you are the CEO of Swiss Miss. Whatever floats your boat, I don't really care. But don't expect me to read something on an open forum that contradicts most of my experiences hunting, and then blindly agree with it because you said it.

Now don't go sending this thread to the cage, cause there is quite a bit of good info in it. If you want to rip anything I've said about dogs or hunting, fine. Find some quotes and go to town. If you want to rip me personally send me a PM or start a new one in the cage.

Dan Edwards · Post by **Dan Edwards** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:54 pm

Boy, I wish coyotes were like bear especially since all bear can be caught according to the ikester. Man, I need better dogs so I can catch every coyote I start. Ike, you sir are a handjob. :lol:

briarpatch · Post by **briarpatch** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:43 pm

I thought the "honeymoon" had lasted too long!! You guys just go ahead and cut each other into pieces...... the rest of us will just enjoy the entertainment and laugh. Sic 'em!!!

briarpatch

Ike · Post by **Ike** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:00 pm

Nolte wrote:I've never called you a liar, just an idiot. (well noltle, if I'm an idiot then you're a dumb, sorry sack of shit idiot!) I'm sure you get your fair share of pudding but your problem is that you get a snack pack pudding cup and then tell everybody you are the CEO of Swiss Miss. Whatever floats your boat, I don't really care. But don't expect me to read something on an open forum that contradicts most of my experiences hunting, and then blindly agree with it because you said it. (let's hear about your experiences nolte, cause I've missed them....post up some stories and photos buds)

Now don't go sending this thread to the cage, cause there is quite a bit of good info in it. (as for the cage nolte, that's where assholes like you belong that call other people an idiot or a liar, so stick that in your pipe and smoke some of that buds) If you want to rip anything I've said about dogs or hunting, fine. (You made a personal attack on me so that's what you have coming) Find some quotes and go to town. If you want to rip me personally send me a PM or start a new one in the cage.

I'll get my spurs on tonight buds!:wink: