Original thread moved

[wyatte]

Well Fallriverwalker1
I've ran thought where and I place my efforts and money, I didn't intend to brow beat any body or belittle them for there efforts, if there is a better or new idea out there that any of the other clubs or groups have speak up, I have looked at some of the other web sites and I don't see alot of effort from any of them in our own back yard , the only group that I do see in Sacramento is CHC and the local club that work with them.

[Brady]

Wyatte all my dogs are Reg. and i am a member of north central and chc i will not renew or spend my money at your events

[wyatte]

I didn't mean to knock reg. dogs as much as I was asking what the UKC does for all of us, I,ve had UKC reg. dogs and it's never been prefference one way or another with me or what breed , I've mostly owned walkers and blue tick/walker cross's . Now to say that you won't support North Central events when most every dollar we make go's to keeping you in the woods sound like a real smart thing to do.

[Brady]

Sounds like you got it all figured out keep up the good work and keep me in the woods.


I just wouldnt make a habit of pissin people off .

[wyatte]

And you shouldn't make a habit of doing the anti's work for them by dividing our forces.
Any time you exclude any part of your own cause your just playing right into the anti's hands.
I'll ask the question again "What does the UKC do for you in this state to keep you in the woods?"
If this question piss's you off, maybe you should look at what the answer is.

[Redwood Coonhounds]

I know for a fact they do plenty. Not just for our hunting rights, but for our RIGHT TO OWN DOGS! Pick up a copy of Bloodlines. They have sections in it devoted to bills and legislation, including that here in CA. I hate to tell you, but UKC has a whole lot more money, pull, and power than the CHC ever will. I want them on my side.

[wyatte]

I'm not douhgting that at they do, I know that they do more then any other group for our youth groups and promoting them thru the bench shows and hunts, it's just when it comes to the fund raisers in this state for our fight, I've yet to see anything from them , all that I'm doing is asking the question .

[Brady]

Ididnt have a problem with your club until you started running down UKC and UKC clubs

There is more than 1 way to fight the antis. 1000 houndsmen on the steps of the capital do a lot more than a $1000.

[wyatte]

wasn't running down body's club just looking to see if and where they are when it comes to fund raisers in our state.
And even if you did raise money for our fight , my open dogs wouldn't be included in your events.

[calblu]

Juvenile arguments and jabs at other houndsmen and the ways in which they choose to enjoy their dogs are a big reason why there's never been a truly united front to fight the antis in this state! Why would any halfway intelligent person want to repeatedly subject themselves to constant bickering and put-downs?
Wyatte, did you do as I suggested and contact UKC to find out EXACTLY how their money filters down to our fight here in CA?
Have you looked beyond your own backyard yet? How many states are having dog issues? It's not just California and it's not just hounds. It's nationwide! It's a lot bigger and scarier than the isolated little fishbowl you act like California is in. I bet there are UKC registered dogs in every state that's being hit with anti dog legislation. Make it virtually impossible to own a dog and fighting for the right to hunt with hounds becomes a moot point. Just because you didn't see anyone fighting for the right to hunt with hounds doesn't mean there weren't a bunch of people fighting for our right to own dogs!


Maybe some of these links will help you understand whatever it is you're having difficulty comprehending:
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Arti ... te04162008
http://www.thedogplace.org/Articles/Pro ... e_0707.htm
http://www.spanieljournal.com/ccooke.html
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.ph ... did=251444
http://tinyurl.com/dawca9
http://doglawsatlarge.blogspot.com/2008 ... rover.html
http://www.calwaterfowl.org/web2/depart ... y/coha.htm
http://www.americansportingdogalliance.org/index.html


UKC isn't the only kennel club/registry where your hounds can't be entered, but it's one of the few that gives you a way around that situation if you can meet their requirements.
I don't understand why you keep bringing that up. Nobody forced you to own grade hounds and nobody is preventing you from owning registered hounds. There are a lot of "organizations" in life that have requirements for participation. The solution is simple -- if you want to participate, follow the requirements.

[RIFLEMAN]

I personally do not believe it to be very productive to choose sides between one organization or another; I think that the more alliances us houndsmen can build, the better off we will be. However, I would say that while you should not put all your eggs into just a single basket, you should carefully consider where you will get the most bang for your buck when the time comes to send it somewhere.

UKC's focus shifted away from hounds in many respects when Connie Gerstner Miller came on board and dedicated the efforts of the registry to developing the dog show events. While things have improved under Cavanaugh, I will always worry about the potential for distraction in the future.

UKC certainly has more money than CHC, but they also have a pretty large paid body of staff, significant operating expenditures, and diversified projects and efforts. Also, any charitable effort or donations it makes to fight legislation will certainly be spread across 50 states and not focused here. CHC's work is all accomplished voluntarily. Its Officers, Trustees, and members donate their time and money quite generously to the cause. CHC exists only to preserve and promote hound hunting, and its focus is squarely on California.

From a legislative standpoint specific to California, UKC has a spotty record in my eyes. They did not submit their opposition to SB67 in 1994 nor lobby against it. They did formally oppose AB342 in 2003, but did not send any lobbyists. CHC filed formal opposition to both bills, and was there to rally the troops and fill the rooms both times. Our lobbyist was there both times. CHC members walked from office to office to speak with the Assembly Members and Senators both times. UKC did not formally submit their support of AB1132, the bill that would prohibit the removal of a hunting dog's collar. CHC not only formally supported it, but we sponsored it in conjunction with our lobbyist. They do monitor efforts at the federal level, and were a great ally in defeating PAWS...unlike AKC who buddied up with HSUS and the Doris Day League. Steve Fielder even called me to ask that CHC support it. That told me all I would ever need to know about Steve and the AKC.

While efforts at the federal level are certainly important and honorable, it will be all for naught if we lose the fight here at home. Logically, everyone living in California should and must be more concerned with matters here, as they will obviously impact us far more. Furthermore, everyone living in California should realize that the politics of the state are such that it is FAR more likely for us to suffer from detrimental state legislation that it is from federal legislation.

UKC is certainly a friend to us houndsmen, but their impact, influence, and attention on California is quite limited.

[wyatte]

RIFLEMAN Thank you.

These are some of the answers I was looking for but more then that I was looking for why anybody would only support a group that seperates us, then doesn't stand with us FOR EVERY FIGHT , all I could get as a responce was look it up, if you support this group I'd like to why? other then they do good work in the over all big picture. The fight is here , if it's not defeted here then we are done.

[Redwood Coonhounds]

Some people just don't get it. Some of us have to pick our battles, and choose who we support and what our reasons are. We don't walk around like we wipe our ass with dollar bills and push our beliefs down everyone's throats And belittle and rag on people because we're not doing enough. What's good for you isn't what's good for everyone. What happens when all that support and money we put into CHC and our hunting rights STILL get taken away? The awesome all powerful CHC is going to save us all, yet even they can't get more than 7 people to show up at the Capital?

Go ahead and say it's my fault, and people like me. But some of us aren't as privileged, and have a life. That's that little thing that goes on when you open your eyes. If we loose our rights because we have to worry about how we're just going to get through the next week, let alone the next year, well, so be it, I guess we brought that on ourselves.

We all need to pull or head out of the sand, before we wake up and realize while we were so worried about ourselves, we've lost everything.

I try and make it out and support all the clubs and do what I can. I haven't had the money yet to renew any of my memberships. But I have managed to come out and participate and show some support that way. Forgive me that I didn't want to go all the way over to Elk Creek, wait around forever to run dogs in the dark, and listen to a bunch of drunks fight, lie, brag, bullshit, and gamble on dogs. Sorry!

I already bought my tickets for the banquet, but as far as I'm concerned you all can keep that money as a donation. I'd rather be hunting.

[wyatte]

Maybe you don't get it , I haven't ragged or be little'ed any body or tried to push my beliefs on to any body, all I asked was what was UKC doing for us in California and mostly what I got for a response was agreation and a threat, with very little explanation as to why all the support to the UKC, I've even complamented them for there work with the young hunters and there work nation wide.
I'm sorry if you took this as a attack on the UKC because it was not ment to be. it was Just a question and your right every body has a right to support who they wish and who they feel will do the best job for there cause . I know as well as everybody else CHC does not have all the answers, Hell some the time I don't if they know what the question was, but I do know they are working for us as houndsmen in this state!

[Redwood Coonhounds]

And you shouldn't make a habit of doing the anti's work for them by dividing our forces.
Any time you exclude any part of your own cause your just playing right into the anti's hands.
Kinda like when you sit and bad mouth all the Greyhounds? Brag about how they haven't won anything, and hope that they will eventually leave. That doesn't sound to me like someone that cares about people coming out having fun and supporting our clubs. Thats someone pissed off cause they didn't win. They don't care that some of those men have been around a lot longer than them, as club members, or entering dogs, or running all the betting up. They just want to bitch and exclude them or change the rules to exclude them.

If you want to compete in UKC events, get a Registered dog. If you want to beat the greyhounds, get a greyhound, or get a better dog!


If this question piss's you off, maybe you should look at what the answer is.