scabbards

[Waterway]

I see all sorts of scabbards and riders carrying them on there saddles and I am courious for some of your reasons. I attach mine under my left leg because I have trouble with my right knee if I put it on that side. I attach it so that my rifle is upside down with the but forward. This is handy for me as I can take the rifle from the scabbard as I step from my horse. I always worry about catching my stock on a tree limb though this has never been a problem. I would be interested in some of your thoughts.

Mel

[Mike Leonard]

I carry my saddle carbines on the right side with the butt high and back. The butt of the rifle hardly protrudes past the small saddle bags on the side. With this angle you will not feel the rifle under your right leg at all unless you ride a horse that is so wide backed or fat that your legs can't hang in a normal manner at all.

The reason I choose this method is because of the extreemly rough and brushy terrain I must traverse while following the lion hounds. My model 92's are slender and flat and were desgned with the man on horseback in mind by John Browning. I have seen others try to ride with the butt stock forward Little Joe Cartwright fashion up thru the saddle rope or even lower and seen the look of anguish on the owner's face when the horse hangs a limb jerks and you hear that sickly pop as the stock is snapped like a twig.It maybe ok out in wide open country or on the trail(but I wouldn't even use it there becasue a horse can get rammed to the side and up against an aspen or lodgepole and snap!
My little 92 has ridden thousands of miles over some of the roughest terrain in the southwest and other than a few scratches on the butt stock which can quickly be covered with another light coat of Tru-Oil. It is in fine shape. You want these type of rifles to be there and you never even think about them until you have to slick it out of there some day and go dispatch that big tom.

I choose the right side for the carbine becasue it counterbalances better when you are getting off and on and you don't find your saddle leaning to the left so much.

Now when I am actually hunting big game such as deer or elk I mount my scoped rifles in a similar manner but a but further back and on the left side. I like them on the left side so I can step off quickly and without going around the horse remove it from the scabbard with less movement.I counter balance these heavier and more awkward rifles by hanging whatever else I carry on the right side of the saddle.

I mount both types of rifles in the upright manner. This is very important for your scoped rifles. I have seen many mounting them upside down with the weight bearing down on the scope and mounts. Most of todays scopes and rings are made from cast aluminum to keep the weight down.The pounding of the trail and the weight of the rifle will invariably tweek these scopes and you will have a gun that is shooting different than when you first put it in the scabbard.

Many saddle wise hunters in the west avoid modern trends and stick with the old all steel body Weaver scopes, mounts and rings. They are not very pretty in the high tech age of modern materials and most hunters these days that do more of their hunting on the Outdoor Channel then they do in the woods will laugh at them. But these guys generally can pull that saddle worn 270 or 30-06 with a 4 x Weaver out sit down and roll a bull while Whiz Banger the rock star turned hunting icon is trying to get his horse to stop and stand still so he can dismount go around and extract his 30-378 Weatherby with the 6x18 scope that is as big as the muffler on his sports car. He then has to set up his shooting sticks or some other devise possibly a portable bench and by that time elk season is over. Listen all the stuff that is edited out of the hunting shows would make a great funniest home movie show. They pull it off and cut and edit it and make you think they are really slick but I have been around a few of these deals and it is like baby sitting or herding a litter of kittens. LOL!

My two favorite scoped rifles for the saddle are a custom
Springfield 30-06 on a slender stock with a 22" barrel. Topped with a 1 3/4X 5 Leupold mounted in B-Square mounts this little gun will put three 168 Gr. Barnes TSX bullets almost in the same hole and it is a delight on a horse I can get it into action quickly and the elk are in deep do do.

My other is a Dale Goens Custom Model 54 Winchester in 257 Roberts. Topped with a 3x9 Burris Ballistic Plex mounted with all steel old Redfiled one piece mounts. This rifle is crowned at 21". It will shoot Berger 115 gr. VLD bullets very well and has accounted for some big mule deer, antelope and a few cow elk out to a pretty good distance, and it rides nice on the saddle.


Horseback hunting is a great expereince and once you try it you will be hooked but you must taylor your equipment a bit different than you would if you are hunting out of a truck or quad.

[sheimer]

Mike, I couldn't have said it better myself. My Marlins have covered many, many miles in just the same fashion.

Scott

[horshur]

if you carry them butt forward keep them low....low so maybe even you get laughed at.
They are pretty safe down there below your knee without any rubbing. I have always had shorter rifle on smallish horses and somtimes the barrel catches them in the stifle and bugs them. With that said I have never owned a fine rifle like Mike. Don't run them high but forward that is only a pain in the ass.

[hunt14]

I like the rifle mounted on my left side with the butt of the gun pointing towards the back of the horse in the upright manner as well. Its pretty slick when you see a herd of deer or elk to just turn your horse to side and slide off and grab your rifle in the upright position ready to shoot. My dad always told me that there is more give in a horses flank than there is in his shoulder and it is alot less likely to break a stock with the rifle in the this position. I have always carried it in this manner and I like it.

Reagan

[Big Mike]

I have found that the higher up I get get the barrel under the fender the less it bothers my leg( stock to the back). I put it so it rides middle to upper part of my thigh. The lower down it seems to irritate my knees and leg more. I carry a model 94 trapper and I dont even notice its there. When I carry a scoped rifle I do the same but I keep the scope behind my leg. I packed a 25-06 with a 4-14 scope with a 50mm bell this way (14 miles ride to camp) It was very comfortable didnt bother my leg at all. I think the key is like Mike described 20"-22" barrels the shorter and lighter the gun the more comfortable they are.

[catdogs]

Offside butt up and forward for me, saddle axe to help balance on the onside.

[Mike Leonard]

I did n't know if any of you kenw there were terms for the way a rifle was slung on a horse. I learned this thru the teachings of Elmer Keith the old Montana cowboy who won fame as a big game hunter, writer, and gun expert.

The method of describing how a rifle is slung on a horse is this:

The horses nose is pointed towards the north star and the butt of the rifle is the guide.

So if you have the rifle on the right side of the horse and the butt to the rear on the muzzle to the front it was said you had it slung in the southeast Texas fashion. If it was on the other side pointing the same way that was southwest Texas fashion. If the rifle was butt forward on either side it was either northwest Texas or northeast Texas.

He indicated this was Texas Ranger preferences. Elmer preffered the northwest method.



I thought that was interesting.The Rangers had a lot to do with the wheres and the whys of guns and gun leather.

[Roy Auwen]

Mike are you talking of Elmer Keith the writer and gun aurthority?
I did not know he was from montana??
Always remember him from lemhi county idaho?

[Mike Leonard]

Yep Roy old Elmer was born in Hardin Ray County, Missouri March 8th. 1899. His folks moved him out of Helena, Montana in 1905 to Marysville a little mining town.He spent his formative years around there cowboying and guiding mostly. He and his family moved to Payette in about 1925, and then he settled down on the Wesier Flat. He was cowboying and trapping down there on Willow Creek when he met Lorraine Randall who was a school marm who later became his wife of many years.And when they finally got hitched they moved down to Nampa to a little place on Manning Creek.Long about that time Elmer got some writing work and was invited on his first big game hunt to Canada in the Peace River Country.Shorty after this in I beleive 1927 American Rfileman offered him a $100. a month to be a regular writer. With all that big money they pulled out moved to Salmon.

So in reality Elmer was born in Missouri but he always claimed Montana as the place that made him.

Many folk that don't understand where eEmer came from and what he went thru actually made fun of him and his big bore guns and cigar and hat. Actually he had a more profound influence on the rifle and handgun world than just about any other writer I can think of. I loved old Jack O'Conner and he was to me the finest writer of hunting tales ever but his small contribution to the 270 pales in comparism with Keith's influence on gun makers and catridge designs. The old cowboy knew his stuff!

[Dan V]

Roy did you know Elmer?

Also, anyone interested Elmer should go to the Elmer Kieth museum located inside the Cabela's store in Boise if they get a chance. The museum has a bunch of his guns and they recreated his trophy room and put his mounts in there. They have a maniquin of Elmer that moves and talks. It tells some of his life story.

Dan

[Mike Leonard]

Dan,

Does that manequin of Elmer smoke a cigar, and handle a glass of old Grand Dad, and about the time you start to tell a hunting story interrupts in a gravely voice and says. HELL I WAS THERE! LOL!

[liontracker]

Yep, and is the sixshooter a .44 mag. and the scabbard gun a .338 win. mag.?

[Roy Auwen]

Mike ,i did not know all that.
I first knew him from Pahsimero, then northfork by sheep creek.
Then on the bar above the court house.
He could really shoot a hand gun.
I was not really a big fan of his.
I was a big fan of Jack oconner.
Knew some outfitters that hunted him quite a bit.
Dan V i hope this answer 's two birds with one stone.

[Mike Leonard]

I follow excactly what you are saying Roy. Jack was my idol as a kid and i read everything he ever wrote. Elmers was a cantankerious old fart and although he did a lot of good things he stirred the pot a plenty. I think he was born in a time when things just passed him by and he didn't adjust to well.But then again he was famous and his name will always be recited in gun circles of big bores and big bore handguns.


Roy did you ever get to know Bob Hagel? Bob did a good bit of lion hunting along with his gun writing and he still has a record lion or two in the book.