odfw motive

[mike martell]

i just completed rereading the 2006 cougar management plan for the state of oregon. a very interesting parallel i discovered by reading the facts. in oregon in 1994 with the use of hounds the last year legal. the odfw had a revenue of $34,400 for the sale of 576 cougar tags. now this is with hounds. the most recent figures i have dates from 2004, 11,323 total cougar tags sold. 24,357 sports pac sold 31 non resident cougar tags sold for a whopping total of $304,400 dollars. now if you were managing a business and are more concerned with your bottom line. would you a. move to return to the earlier figures or b. would you continue with revenue that is close to ten times the pre ban numbers.you are safe with thinking plan b.because it best serves the greedy.i pulled these figures up on line. they belong to the department. all you have to do is google search and again bingo! this is all the evidence to prove they probably don't have our best interest at heart as they slither along.............time to ride herd on congress, oops, i mean the department.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Mike if you factor in what they are paying your government hunters, some of which frequent this site, what are the numbers then and how far ahead are they really. Take in to consideration the next 2000 lions they want removed and they will really need that revenue . Good luck in your fight, you Oregon boys need to put a stop to this or you will loose your bobbers next.

[walkersrule]

mike, you stated a really good point about the revenue. this is just my opinion, but i have really thought about it today. if the money is so great for them on the sports pac and the bear tags, maybe we aught to get something going with some of the hunting clubs and organizations and maybe even the ranchers. or write an article for the newspaper. state all of the money figures and what is going on. that way we could get people on the bandwagon to not buy the sports pacs, bear tags, lion tags and so forth. maybe the outfitters would even help us. if they start losing money the way started getting it in the first place they would have a change of heart?

just an idea.

the money issue sounds to me like its the main thing for them. look at all the fishing guides out there. they bring in lots and lots of revenue for the fish and wildlife. thats the only way they get to say anything to make them listen or help out at all. fish and wildlife uses alot of the money from licenses and tags along with taxpayers money. most of that money comes from hunters. sounds to me like if the hunters get on the same page fish and wildlife will have to do something or they will eventually be out of a job. all it will take is a little bit of effort and not buying certain tags for a while. i realize that not everybody is going to do it, but maybe we could convince enough to do the job that it might help along with the hard work and effort that you have already put into it.

[mike martell]

walkersrule. first off i always want them to know what i think of them first hand. right here is the source, yes this site. both are monitored by both osp, as well as odfw. or via through there goody hound hunter sources. we have a select few hunters who report all activities directly to them.as you probably know the odfw extended the tag deadline until the end of the month. this is the first time in the history of the depatrment to do this. why? i was told a computer glitch.....right.tag sales are in the tank. people are fed up with odfw. history lesson on odfw. the previous administration, gov. john kitzhaber years back detected frequently odfw was not accountable. he moved the odfw from portland or. to salem. to ride herd on them, now we have sleepy ted as governor. there is so much corruption in salem. this is the reason they love to keep us painted as bad image guys. we as a group are the minority. they want nothing more than to bury us and be done with us. they will not take our bobcat hunting from us. this is the fear from of those who follow.... depending on what they have to say this weekend. and it better be good, but if i could make a bet down in vegas. i would bet the farm they roll over us.i have a message into larry cooper,cougar biologist with odfw. waiting to see if he returns my message. trying to unite the dog hunter with any other sports group is like trying to have a sloppy drunk for a best friend. it won't work. just last year the president of ousda said in the sporting dog report the biologist with odfw. called us" bad image" this being the hound hunters, all the while they allow the timber companies there full support to slaughter our black bears? use tax dollars to kill female lions and the kittens. this is in the name of management objectives! i say when you live in a glass house you better unload the rocks from your pockets or your kingdom will come crumbling down! now just who do you think is blackmailing who? lesson number one, if you kidnap someone make sure it is someone from a rich family so you have something to ransom. not like a hound hunter from oregon that has no more blood to give,or you may just be screwed. jmo.....

[John Weston]

Hey Mike does Tim Cook work for ODFW or one of the Timber Companies that he rolled over for last week? I just heard all this bull sh*&^^T was going on and want to know why Tim and the rest of the OUSDA leaders have thier heads in the sand.I would like to see whats going on in the CAGE too.

[Buddyw]

I'm trying my best to keep my cool on this topic, Which has been repeatible brought up and I'm having to deal with some PM's and crap that I just don't really want to deal with...

I don't speak for Tim, or any of the other OUSDA Leaders, but I'll speak for myself.

What is it that you would like OUSDA to do???
Please spell it out for me?

Would you like us to wave our magic wand to ODFW, so they can Magically make the BM 18 Disappear?? (Yes or No Answer)

Would you like to Try and Ban Snares like the Anti Hunter's did to us?? (Yes/No)

Would you like us to divide ourselves further? (Yes / No)

Should we Piss off the Trappers, Timber company, NRA, and Probably every other group that comes to mind? (Please answer this)

What is your idea on how to bring the hound guys together? (again Please answer this)

Is your idea that since I don't agree with your thoughts that ODFW can over turn BM18, that I'm rolling over.. If I am "Rolling Over" , Please run for my position on OUSDA, It's a vote, and it's easy to bitch and moan when your not having to do anything but complain about things.

Please Spell this out for me, I'm having a Hard time understanding this mentality.

No more name calling, No more insults.. Please just tell me what you want to be done, and what you have done, What are you willing to do to make it happen. Am I allowed to have my own opinion and disagree with you or does that mean that you'll start calling me names?

I'm tired of Everyone complaining and bitching, I'm tired of cleaning up this topic for the same shit over and over. things never getting anywhere, That's why you don't see me post on these topics anymore, it's all words and smoke when you get down to it.

So if you have an idea. Spell it out and show me the way. Mike you said you were going to call the NRA back a while ago, Did you ask them about your idea? How about The USSA?

If you guys are feeling froggy... Jump, then come back and tell us how hard you bust your ass..

Secondly, Please, and I mean Seriously "Please" Run for my position on the OUSDA Board of directors this weekend, It is your DUTY to Vote me out of OUSDA if I'm not performing to your expectations, that is the same for every other Board member and their Position, Including President.. If you think you can do a better job, Then Please go do it, I would be more Happy to let it go it is more trouble for me than it is worth.

In fact right now it's a big conflict of Intrest with me owning this site I would love to be more of a Prick on this site without worring about making OUSDA look bad.. I Took the OUSDA position not because I wanted it, but because NO ONE And I mean NO ONE else volunteered to step up? But everyone seams to Have an opinion about it. Step up and take the wheel.. or Keep bitching on this Site.

So back to the question.. It's a short answer.. What is your Plan!

No more excuses,
No more blaming other people
no more Point the finger to someone else

What is your plan..

[oregon perk]

O.K here goes,Get to know your REPS in your district ( where ever you live in this country) get organized and make an effort, some may not like this but the wildlife services (government trappers) must go why should state and fed tax dollars pay for the slaughter of our animals?Where is HSUS,PETA since they seem to care so much and others that think they have done something by voting out some hunting ( when more animals are killed by SNARES then before) Oregon is cutting there funding from 400+ to 120k for the next two years.This will have to come down to a BM and alot of work with Deer And Elk hunters and facts and whats really going on to gain support from the non hunter.If hunters and fishermen and women don't start policing themselves things will keep going away.This will not be an easy task, but we have to come together with a Plan of Action.WE have to fight the Propaganda war ( fight fire with fire) every where in this country.We can get on this site and others and complain,it's just as easy to get on other sites and make your voice heard.You don't have to stand tall,but you've got to stand.

[John Weston]

Its time for OUSDA to start looking out for whats best for all of us. A lot of the leaders of this group are playing both sides of the fence hunting for timber companys,ODFW permits, and so on. This is bullshit if your going to fight for us then you should not worried about losing your hunting if you piss someone off. The snare that are used are not legal for us to use so who gives a shit if there gone, one more bear that I might be able to catch. The timber companies dont give a shit about the hound guy all they care about is that the bears are gone. If you took the ablity for timber companies and the cattlemen to have there problems taken care of away they would be standing on the gov's desk.How to bring the hound guy together,start fighting like you have something to lose,not like your protecting someone.If your hunting timber company ground or have a permit you dont see things the same way the rest of us do.Its not legal to trap a big game animal and that should go for the timber companies to.Bears and cougar should not be killed with dogs in Oregon by anyone and untill this happens we will never get it back. Hey Buddy this is not personal I have watched OUSDA for 10 years now and have put on the blinders to whats been going on and not, its time to stop trying to make everyone happy and take off the gloves and fight,dont worry if who piss off.

[Buddyw]

Well said perk..

John, I agree with you,

However like I told Mike, I think it would be best to try and get Cats back before we go for bears. I think we can get Cats back with what we have been given. I don't think we'll get bears back right now.

I think.. And this is my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

But I think we can get cougars back if we fight with all the info we have on the cougar plan, It's not easy, But we have a ton of information now that we didn't have before. Prices, Fee's ect... I don't think we can do it through ODFW.. and I doubt we can do it through the governer. But I do think we can do it through the people.

I think we can do it either through Leg, or Ballot. But someone needs to sit down and figure it out.. I've tried an avenue, and Might have a Ballot title for 2010, but it's with a Guy that we probably shouldn't use. I wish I knew more about the process, but I don't. If anyone knows how to start and request a ballot title and get it approved by the attorney General.. I'd really like to talk with them...

After that is done, then I agree the only way we might get bears back are by putting the pressure on the timber companies..

I don't think it will work the other way around.

But that's risky bussiness, Personally, I would like to try and take everything we can off the table before folks start pissing in the Kool aid..

Just my opinion..

We (OUSDA) are hurting for something to do.. "ANYTHING" to do right now so we can focus and get back together. I just hope that This weekend we can sit down and decided on a Game plan, that we can achieve and work together. We need a Plan more than we need bitching and complaining.

I'm off to bed.

[mike martell]

first off, i think ousda is done. keeping the previous president from 1990 active has killed your association. 28 counts of illegal bear takes. convicted.he was what the state police call the first oregon poacher king in 1990. ousda supports guys like him, i'm out. he is a major reason we lost our hunting in oregon in the first place.very simple solution for ousda, disband. if either of you had been around for any length of time you would know ousda is a waste of time. second line of business. eliminate all the cable snares on all the timber lands. they own the property we own the bears. buddy you and tim wern't even around for measure 18 with hounds. we lost for ethics, moral violations. this method of slaughtering has kept us idle for 15 years. IF WE WERE BANNED FOR ETHICS, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF SNARING SOWS AND CUBS. KILLING EVERYTHING? i don't care if the timber company owns the land and the trees. they don't have the right to slaughter the animals. tim cook calls this blackmail. it ain't. you have to demand something in return. i'm not asking for nothing back. they win! these dictators have locked all the gates. good this is there right. keep them locked. good feed pellets to the bears until they go back to peeling the trees. leave the bears alone! save your breath about uniting the hound hunters. it hasn't happened in the 37 years i have hunted hounds in oregon. the odfw wants to dictate and use tax dollars to eliminate the cougars and roll over us. they think this is there right. or not so fast. we let the tax paying citizen decide how the money is spent not the odfw dictators. they want to keep stone walling us fine. go public. take every management resource away from them. let the grey wolf run free. leave the bears alone. leave the cougar alone. when these dictators have had enough only then will they allow us to run a hound in oregon. i agreed to go with the majority in salem. this being a few more than me. now you don't have to second guess what my plan is. don't elect no one for ousda. they aren't needed. i'm going to the convention for one purpose, to see what odfw puts on the table. i'm sure it will be more lip service. i will be handing out fliers for the following weekend it reads, public invited saturday june 6, portlands waterfront park. topic, bear cable snares. this is a public forum that will discuss the use of the aldrich cable snare to catch and remove problem black bears.you will be able to watch a live demonstration on there use. you will also be able to watch some bears on video that were caught by usda officials. this is going on throughout the western part of the state of oregon by the northwest timber companies. see how the oregon department of fish and wildlife condones this practice.this forum is to educate the general public with what goes on behind the scenes.you will also recieve a flyer that has the amount of money you just spent to kill 101 cougars with your hard earned tax dollars. you will see they just spent $310,501 dollars for this program. see what the next move they are planning to make..... these greedy people want to dictate, good let them dictate. they win. buddy. i'm not mad at you or tim. all i ever see is guys like ted craddock who are hunting for the odfw. everybody agrees ted is a great guy, but these guys aren't going to rock the boat.this stuff keeps us divided in oregon and will never change. lets review the power of the n.w.timber company. these guys wanted us out of there hair way back before 1994. they aren't stupid. how much money did they contribute to our cause? this was there plan. i say lets all show them the same respect they have shown us. kick them all in the balls as hound hunters. just as they have done to us and continue to do to us. buddy if 150 hound hunters turn out that have the same opinion. my guess would be for the first time in 15 years they know we are serious.all i hear is we can't fight the big timber company. they are too powerful. well you soon forget the state we live in, and if you agree these methods that replaced us are acceptable than you don't stand for nothing as a human being. i don't think there is one person who agrees with the use of cables. so what is the problem? i really don't want to fight with any of you hound hunters. lets just do what is right for oregons black bears. i think any person on this site would agree a big game animal as spectacular as our black bears deserve something better than to hang. damn it, i have had it with this b.s.this saturday if we told odfw, look we as a group are fed up with what you guys do with our black bears. maybe you don't remember why we were banned. i think it was about the lack of the ethical treatment of animals. from the time of the ban up until today you continue to use methods that make us hound hunters look awful ethical. either you halt this or we start a campaign against the department that will dictate change and don't demand nothing in return. just stop the senceless slaughtering of our black bears.for that matter leave the cougar alone as well.we need to channel our energy back onto those who dish it our. as hound hunters lets stand for the more ethical treatment of animals. we all agree this is a bunch of crap, saturday is our chance to do something about it.right now i think more of eliminating these cables than i do owning hounds. if need be i'm willing to give up now and take back later. i guarantee you, it will be sooner than waiting on the dictators.

[mike martell]

buddy, we are now getting somewhere. lets talk. lets do something. your guy bill will sink us in 2010.i'm like you i don't know how to get this going. my guess is if need be i can start rolling out something. never underestimate the power of one.the reason i'm a hard ass is because this was exactly the drive i put behind my hunting big game hounds in oregon. when i start a track i don't quit it, i finish it .you however are right about the cougar. i still think odfw and the timber companies are vulnerable.these guys were starting to shake until we went to salem. now they think they are kings once more. this is a way too easy of a matter to resolve. look at the support the antis showed during the 1994 campaign. take a stand with odfw that is serious and i bet these power mongers do something.we don't ask for nothing back. perk you are on to something. but our reps are listening to 51 % of the voters who will reelect them, and won't back us on any form of hunting. this comes from the conservative side of salem. you are right perk about standing. we as hound hunters know for a fact we are the best possible choice for bear and cougar management. more humane than cables and we are willing to do the job at a price that can't be matched. pay to hunt. this is the best start we have had for awile. lets keep up the dialog.