Hair pulling

[live to hunt]

I have hunted with several dogs over the years and in that time I have seen some dogs that will really dive in and pull alot of hair and be very aggresive. Then there are some that will stay back and just bay. My question is are aggresive dogs made that way and if so how do you get a pup that you are stating or older dog to be more aggresive on game??

[Catch]

I have hunted with several dogs over the years and in that time I have seen some dogs that will really dive in and pull alot of hair and be very aggresive. Then there are some that will stay back and just bay. My question is are aggresive dogs made that way and if so how do you get a pup that you are stating or older dog to be more aggresive on game??

JMO
Dogs are not made to pull hair or fight bear, they are born that way.

My thoughts. A high percentage of dogs will grab, kiss or pull hair on a bear. The day will come a bear will catch the dogs, roll them up, kick some ass, and win the battle for the day. Now, when this does happen, a high percentage of dogs will never grab a bear again. This is why. Very few dogs and I mean very few dogs have the mental toughness to handle such a traumatic event. Dogs that want to play with bears after a bear gets them down are born with the mental toughness. This can't be taught or trained in a dog.

[BWTB]

I have heard that leashing a dog and holding it back from other dogs on a bear can make them more agressive when baying. I don't hunt bears but I tried it once on a coon and it worked.

[spruce mountain]

I have found that if you run your dog's with agressive dog's that will make them be more agressive.They see someone else doing it then they will chime in,kind of like kid,s on the play ground.But I agree with catch,once they get thier clock cleaned no amount of training can make them go back for more.That's were pure heart kicks in.JMO.

[live to hunt]

I can understand a bear putting a hurt'n on them. Does the same thing happen on smaller game like coyotes bobcats and coon? I have a two year old dog that hunts pretty good but she will not get a hold of a bayed up coon. Can I help her out? I hunt her with an older dog that dives right in and bites.

[spruce mountain]

I don't think that thier is much you can do about that,She might get a little better with time but she's probably not got it in her.On the bright side if you just use her on coon and she trails and trees good its not the worst traight to be weak in.JMO GOOD LUCK.

[BBGH]

I have a female walker who was always a good bear dog. She ran in the middle of the pack, treed every breath, and would start a track as well, but she never was a hair puller on a bayed bear until one ran her down and grabbed a hold of her. She got hurt once and then she turned on, she gets holes in her now every other bay up job and is now a awesome bay dog. I know guys that will tap a bear out of a tree and let the young dog grab a hold of it just so it can get a little hurt under supervision. Then the next time out they see if it still wants to pull hair, if it does they keep it.

[Nolte]

If the dog is 2 and still isn't doing it, the chances are slim that it will. A dog should have matured enough by then to be grabbing a coon if it wants to. Good tough coon dogs make short work of a coon that is not in the water. Some dogs will never be that way, but as long as they show you some coon and are enough for you then it's your choice if they stay.

In my experience most dogs that were good tough coon dogs were the same on cats, but nary a one will make short order of a healthy yote if by itself. It will still probably bay good, but it just can't finish the deal without help.

Bear is an entirely different matter al together. A bear is much more intimidating than the rest. It's anywhere from the same size up to 15 times the size of a dog. Lots of good tough coon dogs won't be in the same township as a rough bayed bear, some will. The only way to sort them is to try them out. I also think your odds go up the older a dog is before the first time it really gets tuned by a bad bear. It also really helps if a young dog has some compadres in there and isn't left hung out to dry. Those first few experiences really seem to make an impression that sticks. Some dogs it wouldn't matter if you they got steamrolled, beat up and kicked around right out of the gate. They just develop a hate for bear. But you sure don't see them around in bunches and you're real lucky if they ever get old.

[bearhntwi]

I have found that if you run your dog's with agressive dog's that will make them be more agressive.They see someone else doing it then they will chime in,kind of like kid,s on the play ground.But I agree with catch,once they get thier clock cleaned no amount of training can make them go back for more.That's were pure heart kicks in.JMO.

True until you take the gritty dogs away.My dogs get in there and bite some ass on a bear,A good friend I hunt with has good bear dogs but they won't really fight a mean bear,when my dogs are there his dogs get a little "tougher" and get in there better.But when i'm not there his dogs hang back 10-12 feet and just bark.I totally agree with catch a dog either is born to do it or not.

[Mike Leonard]

Nolte is right on in my opinion. You can"t make long term gritty bear dogs. I know a few guys that would do crazy stuff like shoot the jaw off a bear and let a whole bunch of dogs kill it and they would really get rank for a bit then along comes Smokey the Bad Ass and it all changes. Some people don't realize different dogs are different and unlike some mental reprobates that never really get the clue after the big cop beats them on the head a dozen times with a billy club and locks them up some will stay till they die. If you think only dogs that will pull hair will catch a bear then get your pocket book out because you can own some for awhile. LOL!

[Smiley]

Mike is right , you do not have to have dogs that pull hair to catch bear in many places and many bear do not need that type of harrassment to climb or bay up solid. And to be honest most dogs do not pull hair or make contact with the bear unless there is "A " leader . That is why a decent pack of dogs gets overated becouse a guy can go out and catch a bunch of bear. But that does not make them a top bear dog or even a top pack of bear dogs . It is the mental and physical ( mostly mental ) toughness that seperates the top beardogs from good ones and frankly no matter how it is argued on here most will never get it or understands what a true beardog is capable of .
To many people get caught up in numbers of bear caught and forget the ones that clean their clock and pat themselves on the back .
Obviously they have some dogs that are doing something right speed and endourance are huge compensators pluss having dogs stay together and arrive at the same time but again their are things that seperate good and top shelf dogs and nothing short of beig with the dogs and seeing it for yourself will ussually help one understand what that is.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Smileys right about having fast dogs and ones that arrive at the same time One of my pups is a little faster then the rest. With the Astro you can see what is exactly going on. In a longer race she is often 300 yards ahead and catches the bear but can't hold it long enough for the posse to arrive. It seems like of the long races I have had this year All but one were caught when the bear circled back and the other hounds cut him off. The 2 I didn't catch lined out for the next galaxy and I called the hounds off due to darkness. I believe if that little pup had a speedster like herself she would have possibly been able to hold both bears. Wish full thinking I know.

[Catch]

Nolte is right on in my opinion. You can"t make long term gritty bear dogs. I know a few guys that would do crazy stuff like shoot the jaw off a bear and let a whole bunch of dogs kill it and they would really get rank for a bit then along comes Smokey the Bad Ass and it all changes. Some people don't realize different dogs are different and unlike some mental reprobates that never really get the clue after the big cop beats them on the head a dozen times with a billy club and locks them up some will stay till they die. If you think only dogs that will pull hair will catch a bear then get your pocket book out because you can own some for awhile. LOL!

Maybe half the Black Velvet in the Coffee!


It has been a long time since I have read someone looking for a non hair pulling bear dog! So I doubt you will be selling out soon.

[Curby]

catch.. u talk like u hold the copyright to gritty dogs and no one else knows what they are and what they do

i'll agree the fearless are born that way.. just like other fundamentals are too

all out eat em up grit is not the answer, not for me anyway. theres a guy who has one dog.. after the first bear of the last 5 seasons that wants to fight mashes that dog so bad he's done for the rest of the season.. miracle he's still alive thats true fearless and senseless grit and not a dog i want to feed. Of course grit is not that simple and dogs aint either got it or dont but have it in various degrees and complimented by other traits.. of course.

i pretty sure i understand what mike leonard means.. and i will agree that some of the best bear dogs arent divebomb fur pullers but usually just get the job done, they live for it, know how to manipulate a bear of different dispositions, i dont really understand it but they make it happen and not out of sheer mouthful of fur grit. i know u know it all and will scoff at that but i think most real veteran bear hunters know what a real bear dog is, and i dont doubt u do either..

i'm betting hard against it but maybe.. just maybe u know something most all of the others dont

i do think we need not let our bravados get the best of this thread.. and use a little discression in describing certain things on a public forum.

[Mike Leonard]

i do think we need not let our bravados get the best of this thread


Curby,

I think that is an interesting statement. I guess we all have some bravados, but when truely analized they don't look so bravo in light of their true impulse. Nope it is much like the dogs themselves it is usually spawned by insecurity or mis-direction. I would bet that each of us can look back at a time we were some damn bravado we felt famous until we really looked at it in the light of our children's eyes and saw just how stupid we as humans can really be.

Dogs are far too honest for most people. They don't lay nightly in their houses and dream of tearing hair out of a bears behind, they more likely wait for the slight creak of the back door to hear your step and approach and to greet you with happiness and eager to feel you hand and be close to you. Yes they will work their behinds off for you and they will sacrifice their very lives for you should the need arise, and stand up and protect your children in the face of superior weapons.

At times that is rather a humbling thing when we may have a brother in law that wouldn't come over and jump start your car if you were dying of a heart attack. Yet we must at all cost of our bravado demand that they bite a bear in the face or pull rump hair off him so we can get the bear's photo for the book. Hmmm? Will they do it? Yep a lot of them will for a time few are ever really killed by a bear, hurt yes killed not often. But their spirit what about that. Ahhh! that is foolish talk, why even worry about that there are plenty of dogs..........................?