Scenting Conditions in Your Area

[Dads dogboy]

This should start some interesting conversation!

Please tell me what indicates poor Scenting conditions in the area that you Hunt.

Not just it being dry, we all face that. But things like we deal with here in the Southeast, the dreaded "East" wind.

Scenting conditions are always volitile to say the least. Mr. Ben Hardaway (his book "In Full Cry, Never Out Foxed is a great read) talks about running a Red Fox and having scent Breast High then in minutes the scent goes to ground!

The Fox/Cat Hunters we talk with in the Carolinas fuss about a South wind and low humidity!

We know each area differs so give us your thoughts as to why within the same hour you can go from having world greatest Hounds to culls not worth feeding!

Your Thoughts Please!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[nmplott]

we have really arrid conditions where we hunt, most of the year if the humidity hits double digits we as humans can notice the change, we also have what we call east canyon winds. One thing because of the lack of humidity the temperatures can go from 70-90 fast and that alone takes a toll on the dogs, we have to hunt at the crack of dawn to about 1030 and then call it a day if we do not have anything going.

[TomJr]

Conditions vary greatly here, southern Arizona near the mexican border, right now its super dry and if you want to find anything that the dogs can run you have to be out before first light 5am or even 4am. Humidity is 15% this morning at 8am. There are cool pockets in the deep canyons but even by 7am the scent will be hard to follow on the high ridges... if the dogs have not got the critter in sight before it gets to the high ridges they almost always lose the scent.

We do get 30 inches of rain a year here and during rainy times the dogs look alot better. During from July on til around middle of March conditions seem to be almost optimal for scent trailing. March starts to dry up and it gets drier and drier until around the first of July.

Temps are also important, we do have running water in many of the canyons for the dogs to cool off though. But even with that they are usualy done around 9-10am and ready for a nap in the shade...

[Dads dogboy]

Thanks Gentlemen!

This is the kind of info I am looking for.

Maybe we can hear from the Snow Hunters in Wisconsin, Mininisoto, MI, and MT. I bet Buddyw and friends can tell us about the Pacific NW. Also if one of you up East Vermonters or Mainiacs could tell me what it is like up your way!

Thanks

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[spruce mountain]

Here in Maine we hunt on snow mostly,There are alot of differant snow condition's tho,fresh snow seems to be the best,It seems like when the snow gets old it isn't as good.Its also better alot of times a little later in the mourning like around 8:30 or 9:00 when it starts warming a little.Alot of times we'll just look for track's first thing in the mourning and when it warms up a little we will go back and run the track's that seem the best.The worst thing we have to deal with is crust that pretty much shuts us down.

[Dads dogboy]

Sprucemountain,

Thanks for the info!

Are you all shut down for the rest of the year and only allowed to hunt in the winter?

You all have some pretty country as we toured it when I was a kid.

CJC

[spruce mountain]

Yeah we don't have any training season on bobcat.Our season runs form Dec 1st thru feb 14th.I realy enjoy the stories of your cat chases,its alot diferant from our running.

[Dads dogboy]

Sprucemountain,

That Sucks! (to quote my 6 yr old.)

We are blessed with Wildlife agencies here in the South that, while we cuss them at times, are pretty darn good!

Allowing us to run our Hounds for pleasure on Fox and Bobcat while not carrying firearms is a Godsend!

Most states here in the South have common sense laws on the books about Hound retrieval as well!

Great hearing from you!

Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[Mike Leonard]

The scenting condition right here where I live are very hard to predict.

We have two things high to very high elevation, low to very low humidity. Now you wouldn't think elevation has anything to do with scent conditions but ponder this. Why is it when people come from near sea level to say 5500 ft. or above they have a terrible time even when in good shape at there home climbing these hills? Thin mountain air the higher the thinner. Ok so how does thin mountain air coupled with fickle mountain thermals mess with scent. First even rather heavy scent say that of a male lion does not hold down as well as it does in lower elevation where the air is heavier. It is whisped away in that thin mountain breeze much quicker. Now add to that mix a humidity of less than 20% maybe much less at times and you really get some quick dispersion of scent molecules. Heat and wind are factors but not as much as some would make you beleive on scent but thin air and low humidity are tough on scent. Now add into the mix a clay based soil with little ground vegitation and you really make things crappy. We have huge tracts of clay based soil interspersed with sand and sandstone. The sandstone holds scent much better than the sand itself or the clay. So this areas bare ground conditions are very difficult for lions, and bobcats nearly have to be standing in their tracks to be runable during the warmer months. Bears generally cling to alpine area where there is more vegitation and can be run well on a fresh track. You won't be running many real old bear tracks in these mountains.

Now snow can change the dynamics quickly and for breif periods of time running can be great on the snow, but it usually doesn't last long down in the lower country of 5000 to 6500 ft. elevation.


Here is an example of what elevation might do to a trail.

Some years back I had a black dog that I considered medium nosed in this area. He was super fast on a snow track or a fresh bare ground track but try as he would he never did much good on any lion trail on this dirt older than say 12 hours. He would put out but just didn't really move them very good.
Well I got an invitation to come and hunt lions with a friend in the deep southwestern desert. Well i was not very confident in my dog's ability to do much down there in that Sonoran type area. Well he had some dogs that were fabled to be the true to the tale type dry ground cold trailers and they had seen lots of lions. Well the first day out we make a pretty big circle on mules and one of his old strike dogs during our noon break starts a lion track in a little patch of boulders. Well we rush over there to make sure they leave out on the track going in the right direction. Ofcourse they were going backwards, but we got them turned around and headed down the small tom's track in the right direction. I was pretty skeptical when he said well that track is pretty old not last night maybe yesterday morning or the evening before. We were down around 4000 ft. which is still high but a far cry from 6000. Well the dogs were working hard on the track and you could tell they knew their business but the strange thing was my black dog was usually leading the group and picking up most of the losses. I mean he looked for all the world as good as those flop eared ground pounders from that area. My friend even exclaimed dang that old black dog has a heck of a nose on him and can really move a track.

We never caught that particular lion because he was too far ahead of us for that day but they stayed on it for hours and moved it a long way. Now the ground was fairly bare and a good deal of granite some in the decomposed stage but the scent seemed to hold pretty good. In fact the next day we tried a little chain of hills not far from there and the dogs hit another lion track just about as old as the one the day before and we thought by the direction it was probably the same lion. Once again we didn't catch it but we trailed and trailed on it and the old black dog looked good.

Came back here went out on the Largo and hit a big tom track that I know was just a night old because of the traffic where he crossed the road, and the old black dog looked completly different. Here was a bigger lion, more scent you would think. Temperature a bit cooler than where we had been the week before,and about 2000 to 2500 feet higher and lots of clay and sand and that black dog couldn't move that track for beans.

[Farmhand]

Spruce Mt. is right on the money with the tracking conditions in the snow up here in the Northeast. If you cut a bob track early A.M. cold morning, go have a breakfast with lotsa carbs in it 'cause when you get back to that track at 8:30 or so after it warms up alittle you're going to need the carbs. If you had tried that track way early when you found it, you'd be doing alot of walking for nothing, but if you wait for warm-up, which is usually an hour or two, the track runs like a fresh crossing and you waste alot less time.

[TomJr]

Mike, Interesting about higher altitude affecting scent, makes sence but I would never have thought of it. Its 5800feet at my house and I usualy go up hill to hunt since there are less people up there.

And those air currents can mess things up too I have had dogs pick up body scent from a bear across the canyon about 1/2 mile away on good days. Then a few weeks back there was a bobcat just outside the fence looking at the chickens... dogs could smell it but instead of going right to it they ran across the orchard and then turned around and came back, noses in the air the whole time like they had its scent. I finaly got them out and after it but they lost the scent at the top of the ridge, this was around noon time. Its not season anyhow so just as well they didn't catch it

[Mike Leonard]

Tom Jr.

Another thing about higher altitude. Remember the warnings be really careful to wear sun block in the high mountains becasue the air is very thing and the effects of UV Ultra Vilolet rays is much more intense up there. you can get burned very quickly. Well these same UV rays burn the track off quickly as well.


Here is somthing to try: If you are out there riding and your dogs are working and it gets around 11 in the morning but the air still seems pretty cool to you so you think the dogs should do well. Get off your animals and get out there in that sun and find a flat rock and get down on your hands and knees and put your nose and face up close to that rock. You will see those rays have heated that rock up a bunch and that air down close to it is much warmer than up high where you are walking or riding. those dogs are sucking in that hot air and it starts to have an effect on their nose as well.

[Nolte]

I think the worst scenting for us in the summer is when it's dry, but yet hot/humid. The dogs seem to really struggle on those days, especially in the sandy/piney areas. Two years ago we got up about day break and checked a few things out. I looked at a road and there was nothing on it so I moved on. We found a different track, put down had a decent little cold trail to a quick run a bear tree. We got out from the tree and the clouds rolled in. It started to down pour so we decided to go have breakfast. It quit after about an hour so we thought to go out and look again. I found a track that was on the original road I looked at and it was after the rain. By now it was starting to heat up and get a little steamy, but we figured we had enough time to get the run in. I figured to put some young dogs down and get it rolling. Well I did and they couldn't move it, so I put an older dog down. Same Thing. They could smell it but just not move it at all. I finally had to put my best cold trailer dog and he could move it, but not very fast. We brought it through two sections and by then it was really getting hot, so we pulled them off. By that time the sand had actually dried up from the rain and it was so damn humid it felt like you were smothered by a wet blanket. We never did jump that bear.

It think that the toughest cold trails for bear are in the fall. Longer nights, longer trails, with dry conditions and possibly frost. The dogs seem to struggle in those.

As for snow, I hate when we get those little snow pellet storms or dustings. It is barely even able to be called snow, but a guy can hunt on it. The dogs seem to have a tough time with that. I really like to run in wet snow, until it freezes at night and then you are shut down. But you usually do get one really good day of running or if it stays above freezing a couple days. For those spring snows if a guy wants to hunt, he better get after it right away in the morning. Cause It might be gone before lunch.

[david]

I finally had to put my best cold trailer dog and he could move it, but not very fast. .

I kind of think it matters a lot what the changes are in the snow conditions. For example, when it is -10 and holding, I have had no problem working a bobcat track as early in the morning as I want to. But when the track is laid in warmer conditions and then freezes hard, that is when I can appreciate the warm up people are talking about.

But like Nolte said, his best cold trailer can take a track and move it when no one else can. I was blessed to be able to raise one of these dogs. If we found a track in the morning that was not there the morning befor, it really did not matter what the snow conditions were. That dog could move the track and get the jump. Not a fast dog, and a strange mix which included 1/4 southwest big game stuff. Probably the most dependable work horse I have ever hunted behind. If we had that dog, we were going to see action that day, all day and for as many days in a row as we could keep ourselves going. A nose like that is a curse for some situations, but for getting a bobcat jumped on any given snow day, it was amazing, and took an awful lot of work out of bobcat hunting.

I think nearly any snow condition is going to be better scenting than the things Mike describes. No way for me to know that for sure, but it is my educated guess. Most people hunting snow all the time are not even going to be aware of dogs with super cold tracking ability. We dont need em. We just wait for 8:30.

[NorWester]

This kind of subject always gets my attention.........but I can never make any sense out of it.

Seems to me just about everyone believes they hunt and run in tough scenting conditions. Some more so than others.
But how tough can the conditions be if tracks that are 12 hours old can be run?
Or is it just that everyone has great dogs?

David wrote,

I think nearly any snow condition is going to be better scenting than the things Mike describes. No way for me to know that for sure, but it is my educated guess. Most people hunting snow all the time are not even going to be aware of dogs with super cold tracking ability. We dont need em. We just wait for 8:30.

I'd always figured that any hound that can work tracks in the American southwest would have the nose power to run just about anywhere.
However I've been told by a couple of different houndsmen who run in central and northern MN that isn't necessarily the case

Now when the subject turns to cold and snow...... that really gets my attention.
An interesting contrast in hound cultures is that in the hare hunting world any dog that can run on snow is revered by one and all and bestowed with the prestigious title of "snowhound". If you hunt hare and your peers extoll the virtues of your dog by calling him a "true snowhound" , boy ...you've really got it going on

By contrast it appears the rest of the hound world speaks of snow and it's relation to tracking like it's a glass of cold fresh water after a week long walk in the desert heat with nothing but sand to look at.

I'm aware that hares and bobcats are perhaps like comparing apples and oranges, but I would assume the conditions and factors that affect scent have to be the same or at least somewhat similar, no?