quite similar

[Dan Edwards]

Great Post! Doubt that my dogs could catch a cat.

[Nolte]

I'm with David on this one. Dogs don't seem to lose red fox nearly as much as much as cats. I don't ever remember seeing them catch one, but I didn't let them run them either. Most times with fox by us there are so many of them it's a track switching orgy and you can't ever get one straightened out.

As for running dogs, No Mas for this guy. I've heard there are some dandies but I've yet to see one that really impressed me. I have seen a lot that severly piss me off though and I don't really want to keep beating the bush to maybe find a decent one. I would love to find one that could hang right behind a yote and just honk for hours at a time. I'd really like it if it would stick on a tough bear and just half-ass tree. Then a guy would have something. I'd even ask for a cold nose, but that would be just getting greedy.

[Dan Edwards]

What if I told you Nolte that I have seen a few that can cold trail and jump a yote and catch it and it didnt take them a few hours to do it? What if I told you that they could catch them pretty regularly in less than an hour and..........not even have to be in snow country to do it? I have never hunted snow country but I have been told by WAY TOO MANY real live for sure coyote catchin men that its extremely easy.

I dont know about the bear thing though. Cant see a running dog being worth a shit at that at all. They have got to be the absolute worse bay dogs that the Good Lord ever created overall. Almost to the point of having no bay to them at all. 2 or 3 of them pile on a coyote and kill it but most of them will not stay with a coyote by themselves until they are 4 or 5 or sometimes even 6 years old. Cannot understand this part. I try to figure it out but it makes no sense to me. I can get a damn cur dog to stay and bay a coyote for 2 hours by themselves when they are a year old but cant get a running dog to do it.

[Everlast]

I like to run grey fox and bobcats, never seen or ran a red fox. But your dogs will definitely make loses when running grey fox. Probably a little easier for the dogs to make pick ups on the fox loses than the cat loses. But the cats don't put up much of a run once they are jumped before they tree. I have caught both on the ground from time to time, always caught 'em in open country, never caught any of 'em on the ground in brushy country......

[david]

Also, I aint pissy about none of this. David is just tryin to cause dissention among the ranks so that I will ran out of the bobcat pack like a cowardly little cur. I got my eye on you David. Quit pickin at me.

[How many red fox have "YOU" seen caught with a pair of dogs?

I know this is the bobcat section but lets not get crazy gusy. LOL!

Man, How come you guys always throw a party when you know I am gonna be gone for a few days.?

To be honest Dan, for someone who does not hunt bobcat, you have probably done more to liven up the bobcat hunting section than anyone else. I thought it was about to drown, then the lifeguard jumps in with all his clothes on and saves the day.

But to answer your question that you already know the answer to: I have never seen ANY red fox caught by any number of dogs. I doubt I have ever owned a dog that could do it. I was told that my dog caught a deer once, but I was not there to see it, so that was probably about as real as a wooden nickle. But fox or coyote, not even close. I have never been on an actual hunt for either.

I probably totally missed the boat on the running dog thing. I sure have heard of a TON of bobcats caught with a few of them. For some reason I started with coon hounds and kept trying to move closer and closer to a bobcat dog from that source. I am telling you, it was an awful long trip from that direction. That song "take the long way home" would sure describe my trying to get to some dogs that could actually catch a bobcat.

I would like to see some running dogs go someday. When my ship comes in, I know where I will sail it to witness some coyote catching dogs. Sure would like to see what those dogs would do on a bobcat. If my ship is big enough, I would put them in it and sail it to some bobcat country. Then I would buy a good recorder and sail Mr Edwards around to a few old time bobcat hunters and let him pester the heck out of em on tape. Then I would get someone to type up the manuscript and probably have the most grusome hound hunting book ever immagined.

[david]

One thing that gets me ready for correcting my dogs is if I never hear them make a loss at all

Kind of odd, that moment or two where the dogs jump their quarry and start hammering away and as the hunter, you wait with stressed anticipation for that first check to assure yourself the dogs are on the right game, and then turn right around and hold it against the dogs for making a loss, even if it is a short one

The dogs cant win can they? I dont know how many times I was getting ready for catching the dogs when they treed and had the game. It was not red fox either! And I dont know how many times I have called slick tree and looked back one last time on the way out, and found the game.

You come up with some good ones NorWester. Like when the good dog in bad conditions is trying his best... "even a complete cull trys his best"

Doesnt much matter I guess if the results are the same. It sure was comforting to read Mr Clays stories and realize that there were days when my dogs got the same results as some of the best bobcat dogs in North America. Mine were trying their best. We wont mention that mine had ideal condions and his had impossible conditions. Both were trying their best with the same results.

[Dan Edwards]

You know you are always welcome David.

[pegleg]

i've only ever caught one coyote and i'm not sure he didn't want to be caught. i had three males and female hound out trailing off a deer kill and this male coyote started heckling them from a distance and one dog couldn't handle the teaseing and kept chargeing him and i'd hollar him back and the coyote would shut up for a bit then a hound would bawl and it would start over. i figured once we got away from the kill aways he'd circle back. he never did and didn't shutup either.well that hound had it and started after him and i yelled untill i realized it wasn't doin no good and sit there and watched them the coyote may of thought it was a game for a bit but he lit out when that hound got about fifty yards from him i'm not real sure but it was bout another quarter mile before he cought and killed it. like i said i'm not sure he didn't want to be caught at first. he never ran another coyote to my knoweldge but never made a really good hound either

[bearhntwi]

I've seen quite a few coyote and fox caught by dogs,but we run in real deep snow by lake superior.I've never actually ran a fox coyote or cat with out good snow.

[dcvarmethunter57]

wow jon i never knew how similar they really were

[pete richardson]

ive seen quite a few coyote caught by dogs on snow-

seen a few caught with beardogs that we were trying to run a bobcat with they were some of better track dogs ive seen - fast dogs for treehounds - didnt know if i should be proud or kill them - they were shocked for running coyote -everytime they got caught at it -


--seen a few caught on bare ground , bear dogs short fast race-- -- i think it was more a stupid move on coyotes part and some real trashy hounds -

just an accident - i wouldnt expect to catch many coyotes on bare ground with those hounds -




have seen dogs run coyote decent in conditions that i dont think same dogs could run a bobcat at all -

coyotes STINK --- it might not seem that way when conditions are bad- -



cat hunters tell me that bear stink--



but a yearling bear in dry conditions might give a dog fits



some of best beardogs ive ever seen to run a yearling bear--- were coyote hounds -or part coyote hounds -

beagles can run coyotes or fox without a loss

, but probably not fast enuff to catch one- and probably dont cold trail one --

beagle switches from hare to fox is like when a beardog switches to moose ----he can smell it


have seen a few faster tree hounds and slower foxhounds that could cold trail , run coyotes to exhaustion in snow

- open trailers- ----not super fast dogs --- but they didnt lose much - they had good noses -- they caught the coyote because they didnt lose---

more like bear hunting--

good race , then they bayup -

been thru a lot of dogs, but only seen a few like that -
seen a few that i just knew they would wear it down and catch that coyote if somebody didnt shoot it first --
they did this routinely
- i really liked those hounds -
i think they were wasted on coyote

dan . u know what i think of those super fast, crazy ,running to catch , wild eyed coyote dogs. dont cold trail -
dont bark enuff-
they might out run an airplane across an open field but cant cross a skidoo trail without losing the track-get lost in the woods

-- they make a loss and u mite find them 5 miles away still running full speed --

-- more sight hound than they are trail hounds - spend more time driveing and beeping than you do listening to race -
i hate that type dog


but

ive seen a few of those dogs , that gave me goose bumps- -- i wish i could bottle the best ive seen , and give it to my hounds in drops --


speed is good---has to be controled --






i had a red n white foxhound , not sure what breed ,

-
no kill in him at all--- just a couple inches of snow-would almost catch a fox - seen him running a couple feet behind a fox with his head sideways as if to grab it , but he never would - just no kill in that dog at all .


he wouldnt finish a wounded one-- he lived to run - not to catch - sometimes i thought he was like a dog chasing a car-
but i dont think ive ever seen a dog run a track just like he could -

he gets my vote for most likely to catch a fox -- but he never did -

[Dads dogboy]

Great comments Mr. Pete!

Please keep them coming and Tell us more about "Up East" Bobcat Hunting!

Are you in the same country that John Kulish hunted? Did you know him? Was he the Real Deal or a want to be with a typewriter?

Thanks Again, and Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[pete richardson]

never heard of john kulish- -- what i know about hunting bobcats wont take long to type--

most days , we cant find a track with snow on the ground-

last winter- ran 2 cats ---caught none--



we have plenty of coyotes-

[captd]

Did a lot offox hunting years ago, saw two red fox caught and killed, same dog, both flushed from den by terrier, about 1000 yd run. Three good hounds will catch yotes fairly regular in deep snow, yote will run roads anything to get away.

[Hipshooter]

I used to catch 50 yotes a year
with my trail hounds.
never carried a gun.
this is very little snow.
I hunted 2 or three times a week year around.
This is open country not many trees.
I used to hunt with a guy in Missouri
He had better dogs than me & we have caught 2 coyotes in one night several times.