Scenting Conditions in Your Area

[spruce mountain]

I didnt know this post was about who has the coldest nosed dogs,I thought dadsdogboy was just interested in hunting conditions in other areas were he hadnt hunted before.I have never claimed to have real cold nosed dogs and there have been very few times when I wished I did.You can say that I'm not a true houndsmen if you want to but I have no interest in my dogs working tracks that they are never going to catch.I like reading the stories about how the hounds cold trailed all day, its just not my cup of tea.I,m fortunate that in my area there is enouph game that I can find a better track than that.I'm not a patient man, when I go hunting I plan on catching something.I don't always but that is the plan.If I just want to hear my dogs bark I can just go outside the house and get them wound up.JMO.

[Waterway]

Have you ever meditated on how a hounds nose must work? I was told once that a hound has has something like 3000 times more olfactory sensory cells than the average person. Now you turn them out on a track and you expect them to locate and run that track. But the hound isn't smelling just that track scent. The soil is full of microscopic organisms that add there own scents for a hound. Plants and other animals add there scents for the hound. Now the hound takes this trail that you set him on and takes it fast, but comes to say a road. Have you ever watched your hound suddenly make a couple circles before continuing the track. You think the road messed up the track....perhaps though its the other "earthly smells that changed sharply at the hard packed road. Houndsman talk about how hounds hunt better in their own local and maynot hunt so well in a different region. A lion is still going to smell like a lion isn't it? Could it be that the oders of the soil and vevetation have created a strange arroma that the hound isn't adjusted to?Instead of oders they take for granted they are suddenly confronted with many oders that are strange and distracts and confuses their trailing the lion scent.
Thes thoughts of mine are purely my own ruminations but it is the only way I can rationalize a hounds nose. I would love to here your thoughts to.

Mel

[sdred]

Mel I have thought about the same thing and I think you are on to something there. I know just for myself the follage changes sharply from place to place. I often thought a hound has to figure out a track with his nose like we would have to hear a voice in a crowded gym with noicemakers and music playing takes some focus and alot of drowning out what is not important.

[david]

I didnt know this post was about who has the coldest nosed dogs,I thought dadsdogboy was just interested in hunting conditions in other areas were he hadnt hunted before.I have never claimed to have real cold nosed dogs and there have been very few times when I wished I did.

I didnt know this post was about who has the hottest nosed dogs. But I am glad you brought it up because we are discussing different scent conditions. And how could we discuss different scent conditions without considering variations in the only scent measuring machines most of us have access to?

[BWTB]

Great topic. what do you guys think about the carbon content of different types of soil here in the west we have alot of fires that leave behind charcoal and ash is it the carbon content that absorbs the scent or the burnt smell covering it, and how long will a burnt area cause a difficult scenting condition.

[Eric Muff]

I too have stood there looking bewildered as my best cold trailers could not move an overnite track in 2 inches of fresh powder snow,wow!To think that this could happen has been a real eye opener into the world of scent and scenting conditions.We caught that lion eventually but had to really work it out with those dogs till the day warmed a bit and they could get things going.A day later we started the same track just for the heck of it about a quarter mile back beyond the original start and caught the dogs up there.They smoked it!Just goes to show you that a little patience in letting the track set-up can help you out alot.
I've also started tracks that left no scent along the road at all and the same was true till we gained enough elevation to alter things like humidity and temperature in snow condtions,suddenly everything came together and the mob soon was out of hearing and moving fast.That lion was soon in the tree and held there for a good spell till we caught up and gave him his centerfold debut and left him to run another day.
Now we are hunting bears on dry ground and having a blast.It seems that this should be a tougher challenge with respect to scenting conditions because in the human mind seeing a track in the snow just makes sense it should be easier to follow than a track you can not see.Obviously that is not the case at all but it does serve to illustrate the difference between what we as humans can see or percieve versus what a dog can quite simply deal with.
There are not too many bears that get away during our spring bear hunts because of poor scenting conditions as most tracks are struck to start,not picked up visually and then a dog put down.

I must admit to being very interested in how you desert guys get the job done,seems to me to be a far more difficult task that what we deal with here.

[Dads dogboy]

Gentlemen,

Real good info coming out here!

Each area has different challenges! But we all face some of the same issues!

Dad has talked for years about the "Vegitation" issues and how changes affect scenting conditions at different times of the year.

Someone mentioned "Burns" a fresh burn is one of the quickest ways to end a Cat Race. However this last trip to FL. we ran one through a fresh burn but just after a shower of rain.

Please keep the Info coming!

Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[spruce mountain]

David I get were your coming from with the scent measuring machines but it just seems to me like a mute point beacause our scent measuring machines are thousands of miles from each other in completly differant conditions.The only way to realy tell who's got the better nose is to put them down on the same track and see who takes it.IMO.I've tried a few suposedly colder nosed dogs from out west and they don't run any older tracks than the dog's I have,that I consider meduim nosed dogs.
Speaking of scenting conditions and running through burns,How about running along the coast when a bobcat runs down on the beach on a low tyde.I have'nt had alot of experiance with it but as far as the dogs were concerned the track seemed to disapear.
Your right on with your post Eric.Alot of funky stuff goes on with scent.

[Waterway]

Dad's Dogboy and Spruce Mountain, I think taking the best cold nosed hounds from this area to either of your hunting area would put these hounds at a dissadvantage. Not that a coon or bobcat track would be a problem for them, but all the other smells that would be strange to them. After these hounds were "located" I think they would run okay with either of your hound packs. I think the same would be true in reverse to.

Mel

[david]

now we have entered a whole other subject that has baffled me no end. I dont know, I guess we are supposed to keep focused and I am sure I will get the topic police after me again, but in real life, that is not the way most conversations go. Just figure we are standing by the truck chatting about dog life and roll with it.

I have never had any success bringing a dog to this area. I think we can still call it a discussion about scenting conditions, but I am not sure. I have carried many thousands of dollars across the country and brought back several different dogs that I witnessed myself in their home environment. One in particular showed me the most amazing performance I had witnessed up till that time. I had to own him, and actually, many years later, If I analyzed my debt, I would have to admit I am still paying for him.

Not one of those fabulous dogs ever once caught a bobcat again after bringing them here. The most broke would look at you like "this is a set up, I aint falling for this" and would refuse to run a bobcat track. Eventually you could get them to go, but half hearted and they never did well even after a few years of living here.

I talked to another man who moves a lot of bobcat dogs around the country. He said the same thing. He can sell dogs from here to other areas and they do fine. There are certain areas that he can not bring dogs here from. They will fail as bobcat dogs.

Weird stuff. It is not difficult scent conditions here for the most part.

[Dads dogboy]

Gosh Guy's really good stuff!

Buddyw I sure wish you would make a members location mandatory as it is pertinent to most our our conversations.

Waterway and Eric Muff where do you all call home, and where and what kind of country do you hunt?

Agreed a Hound needs to "Aclimate" to an area to perform his best.

But One should be careful making sweeping statments as to how a Hound would perform from one area to another. There are many more factors that will effect a Hounds performance!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[Waterway]

Dads Dogboy I live north of the Black hills of South Dakota along the Belle Fourche R. We have a lot of coon and some bobcat right here. The bobcat can only be hunted Dec. -Feb. during season. Though we have mountain lions to, in order to run them legally with hounds I have to cross the Wyoming line. Being a semi arid area bobs are either run on snow or frozen dry ground here. Lions may be run on either to but if you watch the harvest most are taken after the first snow in the fall.
David I have bought good pups from other areas with success but have never bought a trained hound. Yours is a insightful situation. I figured a hound would adjust with time.
BWTB I would imagine that a forest fire would do more than leave carbon. Don't you think it would serilize the ground for a while killing the micro flora in the top layers of soil to. I have a terribly poor snoz and I cannot hardly imagine how this effects a hounds sense of smell.

Mel

[david]

Agreed a Hound needs to "Aclimate" to an area to perform his best.

But One should be careful making sweeping statments as to how a Hound would perform from one area to another. There are many more factors that will effect a Hounds performance!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

Well, I guess I avoided the topic police this once. But the sweeping statements police had the radar on me!

Not sure how to put things sometimes. Let's see. I'll try again: I only know three houndmen in this area that have bought bobcat dogs from other areas at least a thousand miles a way from here. I myself have been directly involved with six of the dogs. The"debt dog" mentioned earlier, I gave to someone in his home territorry and he did well upon his return. It was not to someone he knew. The second gentleman, I have no idea how many dogs he has moved into this area, but it is more than I have, as he made part of his living doing those things. Bobcat dogs from here that he shipped to other locations did well. The third gentleman has moved several others that I can think of. Of all of those dogs, only one seemed to do well here. She was a small black dog of unknown breeding. None of the others were ever responsible for catching a bobcat in this area. Now if I take it any further than that, I am afraid I might start sweeping again, so will just leave it at that.

[Eric Muff]

I hunt southern Alberta and south eastern British Columbia.All of this is true Rocky Mountain country with deep valleys and peaks rising to 8000 feet.We run lion and bear mostly although we can play with the odd bobcat as well as lynx.This is a playground for houndsmen as the seasons are quite liberal and game plentiful.That being said there is lots of company around as well but if you are willing to make your own luck you can do very well and beat or avoid the crowds.
Years ago I was looking for a new pup and did a bit of research on the various lines out there thinking that all those good looking adds in all those magazines had to have the ticket.I spoke to dozens of breeders and hunters selling their litters from almost every corner of the country,it was getting overwhelming.
Then I talked to a breeder of Walker dogs that told me to"hunt dogs that were bred to hunt game in your country and from your country"I still live by those words today.This guy made a good part of his living breeding and selling pups and training dogs and was honest enough to steer a young guy in the right direction,thats class!And those are words to live by!

[livetohunt]

On the topic of "Burns". I was up hunting in a new area about three years ago and saw many guys bear hunting in a very large burn that was only about 6 months old. I didnt stop moved up the hill and hunted that day. But when I came back saw three guys had taken bears. I didnt give much thought to it but I would think the carbon content of that burn make the scenting conditions very hard for that area? Anyone have any thoughts on hunting the burns?