Puppy Prices

[BBGH]

I was just wondering what the HECK is going on? Why are guys selling non registerd hound pups for 800. to 1,000. dollors? And why are we buying them, this is absolutly rediculous. Usually you will get two great hounds in a litter, three descent ones, and one or two that are going to eat a bullet. You never know with pups. So why are we buying puppies for this much money? I remember when 500. for a finished bear hound was the going rate. I know that with time everything gets more excpensive, dog food, gas, ect... but I just can't get over the prices of some of the breeders. And I know a lot of guys that are selling pups for 200. but the more we buy the 1,000. puppies the more everyone else will raise there prices. It's basic economics. I know some people are going to say you get what you pay for which I am good with, I have paid 1,000 dollars for a good started dog and now she is finished and catches her own bear. But I knew that she had the want-to because she was 2 years old and making races and baying and treeing. But with a puppy you never know what you are going to get! Let me know what you guys think, you can tell me that I'm the crazy one, it wont hurt my feelings. Have fun, safe, and successful hunts, may all trails end at the tree!

[norcalkemmer]

you might want to say one or two of them are culls instead of saying they will "eat a bullet" why give the antis more ammo against us.

[Big Mike]

I agree thats alot of money for a pup and personally would not pay it. But Here's my take on the subject. First registration don't catch game, ability does. I would much rather have a pup from line bred dogs of mixed breed than registered. The problem with registerd dog is a guy breeding a registered line of dogs has only the top of that line of registered dogs to choose from when breeding which might not be the top dog available when it comes to ability (may or may not). A breeder is much better off being color and apperance blind and breed for hunting ability which in turns produces a better line of dogs. If a breeder has a good line of line bred dogs they should have at least 70% of the pups produced making the grade thus a high priced pup.

The flip side to a high priced pup is: Say a guy buys a pup for a $600-$1000 from a popular well known and proven breeder who is has a great reputation. Lets say 80% of his pups are making top dogs. That leaves 20% that are not making it. So the guy buys this pup, pay a lot of money and by chance end up getting one of the 20% that don't make(thats the way my luck runs if I were to do this). Now raise this pup to breeding age but and find out its no good or doesnt know any better that the dog is no good. Since the guy paid lots of money makes him not want to cull the dog. If fact he would like to get his money back so he breeds it to another dog and sells the pups off of the original breeders good name and probably produces a whole litter of junk. This is especailly true with guys just entering the sport just cause they dont know any better on how to judge a dog. And it can be a snow ball effect from there. Which in turn starts to ruin a that line and the breeders name

The other thing that happens is the greed of ther original breeder and starts mass producing pups and loses the quality in doing so.

From what I have seen in my 20 years of hounding a guy who prices his dogs to high ussually ends up shooting himself in the foot by doing it in the long run

But if a guy can get that price for his pups and sure dont blame him for selling for that price.

"Never cus a man for making a better deal than you did" LOL

[liontracker]

Another facet to this is, if a guy paid $800 for a pup, that pup would see much more effort and training than one that he paid $200 for. Which one would have a better chance of turning out?

[Brady]

A pup is worth what someone will pay for it it will regulate its self.

[Nolte]

I figure if somebody is willing to pay it, have at it.

I've got free pups and bought pups up to $500. I can't say I'd drop a grand on one, but you never know if I was something I really had a lot of faith in.

I think the biggest thing is if you've got confidence or think that something has a good probability of turning out, get it. If you've got to part with a 12 pack or $500, it's worth it. If you are going to base how good a pup is by price alone, get ready to drop some coin and be ready to be dissapointed.

[Mt Goat]

Its all supply and demand. I've pay $600-$1000 for a GSP pup, but with hounds I cap the number at free to $500. And I only have one that I pick up from Jeff Allen that I payed $500 for, a straight Nance bred pup.

IMO With a good line of birddogs your going to get alittle more consistencey in the breeding than you do with Hounds so with hounds you run more of a risk of the pup not turning verses a well breed Birddog.

Larry Lowell

[liontracker]

Exactly... and with a top strain of hounddog you will get more consistantcey in ability.
The more consistant the high level of ability, the more money it is worth.

[African]

Quoting Big Mike:
"I would much rather have a pup from line bred dogs of mixed breed than registered. The problem with registerd dog is a guy breeding a registered line of dogs has only the top of that line of registered dogs to choose from when breeding which might not be the top dog available when it comes to ability (may or may not). A breeder is much better off being color and apperance blind and breed for hunting ability which in turns produces a better line of dogs. If a breeder has a good line of line bred dogs they should have at least 70% of the pups produced making the grade thus a high priced pup."

I don't get your logic.
So if the registered dogs are good performers then you still would not buy a pup?
and if the mixed bred are not performers you would buy a pup because ......why?
Line breeding is in practise the retention of genetics from a very limited spectrum of individuals, in fact that is why we have seperate breeds!

The idea is to always breed best on best!
You do this within 1 breed in order to maintain a conformation which has been decided (proven) to perform best for the specific hunting requirements/terrain eg. mountainous - strong hind quaters, dry - good nose, light coat - hotter climate/more visible ......you get the picture.
What idiot breeds a dog with gammy legs and a oversized pip just because he is the first on the truck and the last from the tree?

In my opinion the breeder is better off being very very specific of appearance and ability and history and blood.
In this manner you can get 80% plus from a litter that will be very close to what you desire.
Ofcourse when dogs are tightly bred the potential for genetic disease is greater and we all know a mixed breed is almost bullet proof, but with the mixed one can never guarantee a purchaser what his puppy will become.Healthy, quite certainly - and that is important! but that he will hunt just like the Dam or Sire????

[Big Mike]

The original reply was to answer the question why a non-registered puppy would be priced high.

The point that i was trying to make was a breeder that breeds only for ability not color registration is more likely to breed a better line of dogs.

Obviously there are great lines of registered dogs where the breeders have done a good job producing a good product. In fact i just got a registered bluetic female pup a few months ago. But there are just as many breeders if not more that have bred for color, looks, registration ect.

So if im souping through all the breeders looking for a pup out of a registered line of dogs its hard to know which is the real deal. If breeder breeding mixed bred line doesnt worry about confirmation, looks, color and is just breeding for ability my odds of getting the kind of pup im looking for increase. Just playing the odds game

That is just my way of thinking wrong or right.

But then again i do spend too much time alone in the woods talking to dogs and mules!!

[houndcrazyfool]

the big misconception is that people think genetics are everything so that has people convinced in buying that pup for a grand. In reality genetics are only the half of it(or maybe less), raising that pup right and imprinting all the hunt charactoristics will prevail. I can take a $40 dog and have him hunting circles around these high dollar dogs you speak of(granted you do need to come from previous hunters and not show dogs).
Take the price of the pup plus feed and time in the woods and now you would've been way better off letting someone that specializes in starting pups/selling started pups do the work for you. When i sell a pup they are crazy game catchers by 6 months, dont throw your money away...

[norcalkemmer]

i disagree with you, genetics are very important. you can haul that "$40" pup to the woods mess with him till the sun goes down lay endless drags and then at the end you might have a dog that made one heck of a pack dog. i prefer to buy that pup that has a long history of game catchers and top dogs in her background and know that the person i got her from has spent time trying to breed the best dogs that he could, not somebody that breed ole tom to sally cause tom has a penis and sally has a vagina. jmo

the big misconception is that people think genetics are everything so that has people convinced in buying that pup for a grand. In reality genetics are only the half of it(or maybe less), raising that pup right and imprinting all the hunt charactoristics will prevail. I can take a $40 dog and have him hunting circles around these high dollar dogs you speak of(granted you do need to come from previous hunters and not show dogs).
Take the price of the pup plus feed and time in the woods and now you would've been way better off letting someone that specializes in starting pups/selling started pups do the work for you. When i sell a pup they are crazy game catchers by 6 months, dont throw your money away...

[Vance M.]

I here ya BBGH, that's a lot of cash for a pup. I dont know why anyone would pay that when you can get a real good one for a lot less.

Yes Norcal I agree that genetics are very important. Anyone who has had the pleasure to witness a litter of a very tight line of dogs know how important it is.

Mike breeding for conformation is important too. If a dog is not built right it wont move right. I think most breeders of registered dogs are doing right by their dogs. I am talking about breeders of real lines not someone who bought two dogs and now has pups for sale. If a breeder was breeding for looks and color then there line of dogs will putter out.

Obviously there are great lines of registered dogs where the breeders have done a good job producing a good product. In fact i just got a registered bluetic female pup a few months ago. But there are just as many breeders if not more that have bred for color, looks, registration ect.

So if im souping through all the breeders looking for a pup out of a registered line of dogs its hard to know which is the real deal. If breeder breeding mixed bred line doesnt worry about confirmation, looks, color and is just breeding for ability my odds of getting the kind of pup im looking for increase. Just playing the odds game

[Big Mike]

You know I thought about this some more and I will have to eat a few of my words. If I was forced to start from scratch and did not have the connections for dogs that I have today but no what I know now I would be willing to buy a high priced puppy. I believe just like race horses genetics is extremely important. I would still chose a proven line of linebred mixed bred pup over a registerd for the reasons I stated earlier.

But as far as breeding for comfirmation, color and looks not for me. I could care less if the dogs is knock kneed, pigeon toed, inverted, converted eyelids, crooked head, pink, green or purple. If the dog could hunt the way I want I would be breeding it(guess im the idiot).

Personally I think them 100 lb block headed, 20 inch ear majestic looking blueticks are the best looking hounds out there and i would love to have a back yard full of them, but i put that aside to look for what works for the way I hunt.

Just IMO which my boss tells me doest mean SH$#