Cold nosed dogs

[JDAWG]

I see a lot of guys on here talking about cold nosed dogs. In your oppinion what is a cold nosed dog? I know what I think it is and was wondering if anyone else thought the same.

[KennelHalabalan]

Cold nose hounds have really good nose they can runs 5-15 hour old track . And somebody call that dog also start dog . You can start game cold nose hounds.

[Kevin D]

I still laugh at HoundDawg's definition of a cold nosed dog. That is, when you turn it loose, all the other dogs sit down!

[Mike Leonard]

I think Houndawg has about as good an answer as there is. LOL

This cold nosed thing is to hard to put a finger on. You may think for three years you have a really cold nosed hound and you are starting those 5-15 hour old tracks as you say, and then some guy rolls in to hunt with you and pulls old wrinkles out of the truck and he starts a track and takes off that you couldn't get your dogs to run three days before. so it is a relative thing.

I think Warner Glenn said it right when asked. Warner are your dogs cold nosed? He said flatly. Cold enuff!

[Big Mike]

Its funny we all talk about it but none of us can define it. LOL.

When I started lion hunting for a few years I had some good snow dogs and thought I had some cold nosed dogs. Then I started hunting dry ground with some guys that had some real dry ground lion dogs and I learned real quick that my "cold nosed hounds" really wern't cold nosed at all.

I sold a bluetick I had once because she couldnt trail lions in the dirt very good. She was a bang up bear dog tho. The guy i sold her to thought she was the coldest nosed dog he ever had so I guess its all in the eyes of the beholder!

[Outlaw 3]

I judge Cold-nosed compared to the other hounds its hunted with. Hounddawg had it right. When you have hunted the dog with different groups of hounds over many years and they consistently work out tracks the others don't know are there, then I consider that a cold-nosed trail dog. It is hard to always put an hour amount on the track unless someone has seen the game come through at a certain time.

[liontracker]

Here are some examples of what I think is a cold nosed hound:

1. SNOW: Lion track was made at 11,000 feet in elevation in the snow. I went back every few days and intercepted it up stream every time so they had a clear, unrun section to test. At 14 days they could still open on it, even though the snow was almost gone. They were picking up the residual scent left behind in the grass and dirt. On the rocks it was gone completely. At that point, they had trouble moving it, so I quit it.

2. BAREGROUND: Lion track was made at 5,000 feet elevation in the mud after a rain. No more rain after that and temps went up to mid 70's during the days. At day 10, they could still open on it but the progress was very slow.

3. ICE: Bobcat track was made on frozen mud and was not visible the the eye. Elevation was 5,000 feet. It was made during the night. The cat went out on the slick river ice and traveled down stream for about 1/2 mile. They went track for track downstream, until it went up on the bank, then I was treated to a 4 mile race that I could see from one spot, (2 miles down and 2 miles back) and a cat down a hole at the end of it, right near where I sat.

This is cold, but I'm not sure how that compares to other hounds...

[pegleg]

well i wouldn't cull it and would let it have the bed and i'd gladly take the couch. but seriously those are tuff tracks. Its impossible to compare hounds unless they are running side by side and i believe this is were the problems come in. how can you rate a cold nosed hound unless they look outstanding in different company and conditions? i'd love to have the answer. mike is right when your dogs are standing there dazed and confused as another is working a track they can't begin to smell much less work. I think this is where a intelligent competition would help everyone out by testing hounds in similiar conditions "seperate but indentical trails" in the heat ,cold,rocks,dry,etc. and if this was designed and ran correctly it would give everyone a measureing stick by which to judge western big game hounds. my primary interest would be in cat hounds. would you breed to a hound that cold consistently DRIVE a 3 day old cat track,regardless of conditions? I damn sure would! coonhound competitions may have ruined alot of strains for our purposes but they did improve them for catching hot coons quick . sorry for ranting but wouldn't it be nice to know how that stud dog or female your so proud of ranked in the cat department? well designed and honest competition has improved all domestic animals for one purpose or another. PLEASE DO GIVE YOUR OPINIONS ON A BIG GAME HOUND COLD TRACKING ABILITY TEST

[Mike Leonard]

I think it would be great if there was a way to do it properly but I think it would have to be a genuine wild game track to accuratly judge the dogs. Although man made trails are very good for training purposes and also for some types of speed competition they never can quite duplicate the incentive the trail of a real critter gives to certain hounds.



I had two different very, very experienced dry ground hunters call me this morning. These guys have a lifetime of following lion dogs on bare ground and they don't easily get impressed. Now these are grown men mind you that have had dozens if not hundreds of hounds, and both have been known for their hounds ability to catch.

First guy calls me up and he is talking so fast and furious I had to say slow down let me get to a quieter place so I can hear you better. Well the jist of his conversation was about a certain male pup that he just can't beleive what he is doing at his age. I mean he went into detail of the last lion race and the cold trailing and the jump and the lion going off a bluff and this pup leading old expereinced cold trailers and acting like he was a vetran. That lion jumped off this bluff and it confused those dogs but not Ace oh no he bailed off and ended up below the lion and then clawed his way back up and located him. WOW! what a pup, what a nose man you should see him!

Second guy about two hours later. Mike I have found my new stud prospect. Really where? Right there in the back yard. And then he goes on to tell me about this Jasper pup (who by the way is a littermate to the Ace pup the other guy called about.Mike he has had no training I just take him out when I am working and the next thing you know he is trailing and I mean getting down and pounding an hour goes by and he jumps and trees. I go check he has trailed up and treed a feral housecat. Well you know how hard it is to trail and unscented feral cat on dry ground when it is hot? Next day he does the same thing only trails about 2 hours and covers a lot more ground and trees he has another one. I mean it is hot and dry! Well third day which was yesterday the dog and two other half brothers trail for 3 hours and finally jump a cat and tree it. Here is a guy that routinely catches lions year round but he is wound up about this pup and his trailing ability becasue he knows just not every pup or expereinced cat dog for that matter can trail up and tree wild cats in the heat.


The reason they both called me is not because I raised these pups becasue I didn't. I do own a littermate to them that is a female and I had been telling them how well she did when she was but 6 months old but I think they just sort of blew it off till they saw it for themselves. The final note of both conversations was this. Are the colder nosed than a lot of the other pups? I don't know if they are but they have the desire and mental toughness to want to work and catch tracks that many dogs would not even mess with.I am not so sure some dogs noses are all that much colder than others I bet they are a lot closer than what we think but I do know there is a thread that runs from that nose to the brain and back and I beleive some dogs have a much more positive connection than other do. And no I do not think that is something you can train into a hound or you can develop with expereince. Sure some so so dogs will get with expereince but they will never reach that upper crust but when it comes to that natural raw talent that places them in the category that makes old dry ground hunters jump up and down and act like school boys with their first crush it is either there my friend or it ain't. And that is the rest of the story.

[Ike]

And all this time I thought a cold nosed hound was one that had stuck it's nose into a foot of frozen snow and then pulled it out into sub-zero temperatures--go figure?

ike

[pegleg]

I would prefer live game trails also. Now we just have to get Game and Fish some where to let us turn out x amount of bobcats at a set time and let each individual dog trail his cat. then give a performance rating. then we can say "Dry Ground Cat Hound". I'm not talkin BS about anyone's strain of dogs. I am saying it would be nice not to have to sift through one hound after another to get hounds that perform as sold. I don't keep 15 or more hounds, I don't want to be a Breeder ,I have no intention of being a Guide. I DO however hunt and I enjoy cat hunting with good dogs that catch cats more often then not. I can't begin to describe how much I love loading my dogs and horses and riding through the mountains. As much as i enjoy the solitude and scenery, its all made better by listening to a race echoing around you. I know I am not alone in this so with that thought I say it would be nice to have Big Game Hound registry with dogs required to past the testing before they may have full registration. Even the best lines of hounds can eventually fizzle if not selected appropriately. and hounds are often sold as being out of someone Else's line or out of old so and so. doesn't say much if the direct parent's of these dog's didn't meet the requirements

[Mt. Dog]

pegleg, you need to check out the ALCBA,one of the registry options for leopard curs.To be permanantly registered in this association dogs must strike, trail, and tree on their own in front of witnesses. Just food for thought?

[bency]

Mike L,
What cross of dogs were those pups out of?

[Mike Leonard]

Bency,

Check you PM

[liontracker]

Bency-That's a secret!

Pegleg-The process that you speak of is how the French do it. Pups have to pass a field test and a bench test before they can be registered. The field test is to let a hare go in the night and in the the morning, the pup, at one year of age, has to be able to follow the track for at least 45 minutes, by itself, or it can't be registered. Also sounds like Bobcats are your cup of tea.

While I was sitting in the vets office yesterday, I picked up his copy of the AKC Complete Guide to Dog Breeds. I read the chapter on Bloodhounds. The record for cold trailing is a 210 hr old track and 138 miles of trailing. That's 8.75 days on a bare ground human track. So based on that, some of our biggame hounds posess exceptional noses.

Mike- I agree that most hounds posses approximately the same amount of scent receptor cells. The difference, is in the amount of drive and perseverence that the individuals posses.