Questions and Comments about running walkers etc

[jake]

First i'd like to introduce myself, i live in washington state and i have to drive to oregon to hunt but it works out. i own grade treeing walkers and have been hunting the same line most of my life. Dotson & Earl Davis and some Blankenship and miller blood along the lines of old lipper blood. anyway my questions are do your guys' running walkers rig? Do none of them tree? some of them tree? special ones tree? How hard is it to keep them straight on just cats? I have hunted with some trigg crosses, mostly half trigg. they would do an absolute bang up job. maybe 3 or 4 trips in a row. then run a coyote into the next county the next trip. some treed ok but most didnt tree worth a crud. a lot of them would hit the tree and run the back track out just as fast as they went in. But as i said before, they can really make a tree dog look bad sometimes. i have been thinking about trying to get some kind of running walker and the guys around here just laugh and say go ahead because they dont think i will catch any game here with them. i wonder if i should start with a pup full running walker or trying to find some how to get a half running walker. any advice would be greatly appreciated. keep the comments friendly and fun. one more question, i have been recieving the hunters horn for two years now and it doesnt really talk about hunting and stuff that we talk about. wonderin why the running walkers dominate that book and not the triggs and julys. about 5 or 6 years ago, we ran into some of those tree happy pieces of junk we eventually got them all culled out that is not the type of dogs we used to hunt and that is not the type of dogs we hunt today. but we absolutely need a tree dog in this country. we do catch several on the ground. thank you for your guys' time.

[pegleg]

read dads dog boy's post they are probably the most informative of any I've read about running hounds anywhere. although I'm sure their strain of dogs are superior to any on the market it is a good place to start. and entertaining as well. the hunters horn is difficult to glean information from as they put emphasis on different aspects then most outside hunters do and blood lines are a primary goal of theirs. they far surpass most hounds men in this respect but I'm not so sure their hunting style would be productive for most cat hunters

[catdog360]

In my experience here in Wa and Or the running dog works better deluted down to 1\4 running dog. And remember out here you better get a line of running dog that trees. You gotta have one HELL of a tree dog here in the big timber, to constantly locate these coastal cats. If you are catching them on the ground you probably don't need anything any faster or harder driving. Man my dogs can put them up these big trees and locate them consistantly but I can count on 2 fingers the cats I've caught on the ground.

[Dads dogboy]

Pegleg,

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Jake you should try to find Al Luttrells post on here and establish a dialog with him. He is in your neck of the woods and can better speak to your needs than we can. He too has a line of Hounds his Dad has bred for a long time and is a serious Cat Hunter and Houndsman!

Yes Running Hounds will Rig and Rig Damn Good! Some will Tree and locate nicely, just like some other Hound traits, and "All Women", some will and some won't!

The Horn and the Chase both used to have good information and pedigree info, however now they are full of Field Tial and Pen info and Hound info. Like in Treedogs, there is a world of difference in the Pedigrees and the types of Hounds Hunted on the Outside! Competion Running Dogs are long on speed and Drive and Short on Nose and Brains!

Good Running!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[perk]

I cant add anything as far as experience of your side the nation or cats, but I do use running hounds on grey/red (mostly grey) foxes in Va. I do hunt with a few running dogs that locate and tree decent on a fox, quite a few that locate and bay at a hole. Most of the stock I run has been bred for this, not bred for competition field trials, most. If you are hunting with dogs that will tree right now, i believe that a running hound will begin to tree along with your hounds, although on big timber they may not be the best locators. If one of mine starts treeing at a tree it onlt take a few minutes until i look like i have a ton of tree dogs. As far as keeping them striaght, I dont have any more problem with mine than i have had with the rabbit beagles or coon dogs I have broke/helped broke.
The hunters horn is about having a place to registed walkers other than the 'Chase' which was its predocessor and competition. The book is normally suscribed to by field trialers and hunters who use the fox pen. Their goal is very different from yours. The hounds advertised at stud in these magazones are normally field trial hounds, high strung, litle to no sense, and very little chance of producing exactly what your looking for. Triggs and Julys are not as focused on in these magazines because they are not the most popular breed of america foxhounds. Julys have speed but tend to lack endurance to make a 3 day field trials. triggs have a great nose and good endurance but tend to lack a little of the speed being bred for by the field trialers. They are not inferior breeds just some lack the charcteristics that it requires to run a competitive 3 day field trial with most walkers, speed + endurance. If you look in the Horn you will see alot of july walker crosses in an attempt to get both speed and endurance,
dont be fooled the main thing is speedthey are trying to find, in the field trial world that equals money. Some of the hounds in there at stud may suit your breeding purpose, look for the ones where they guys act like the dog is deer proof and is hunted outside, the others probably lack sense you need.
I would try some running stock, I have seen plenty that would tree a coon as well, just gottaa find the right stock and the right gog, I doubt any will do it as well as a treeing walker but they will tree, and they can sure move a track. JMO
Perk

[Hipshooter]

I know nothing about oregon costal cat hunting,
But can tell u about cat hunting in Tex, Okla, & Ks.
The cat dogs are all 100% running dogs.
There would be a few with a little tree dog in them.
In Tex the trees are so short, most any dog will tree
& a lot of the running dogs will tree pretty good.
U don,t want a dog that is tree happy, They will false tree every time the
cat marks a tree & that is a lot. Dogs that tree the bark are worthless, I want my dogs to tree the scent in the air or by sight. Running dogs will truck right on by the marked trees
But if the track runs out they will come back & look for the tree.
Most cat hunters here are older guys that don,t care to walk to the tree & if they did they would leave the cat in the tree. The only ones that are killed are the ones caught on the ground. Cat hides in Tex are not worth much, so they keep very few for skinning. In Okla & Ks u can not kill a cat if it is not kill season, or carry a gun. Most guys run the year around any way.
!/3 of the cats here tree, 1/3 get caught on the ground, & 1/3 hole. This is the ones that don,t get away, Every body knows what % of races get caught, Dammed few.
Most of the older guys that have to good dogs, care nothing about killing a cat, one killed is just one less that they can not run again.
I guess if u lived in a place where the cat hides are worth big bucks u would have to have a little different kind of dog.
Cat hunting is just a hobby, Killing cats is not a hobby for most guys, Hearing the dogs run & traing pups is what most guys enjoy the most.
Good hunting to all

[pegleg]

Hipshooter what part of kansas our you from?

[Hipshooter]

I live 40 miles n/w of Wichita close to the Big Arkansas River.
I am an exception to the rule.
I have some tree dogs.
I have some little 40 lb females bear bred Plotts, that can run with the running dogs & they have unlimited desire.

[jake]

thank you very much for all of your responses. this is so cool that we are able to talk like this. for dads dogboy, i know Al his grandpa bought two half triggs from a good friend of mine and those are the triggs im talking about. in response to the other guy, we dont catch a ton of cats on the ground but we do catch a few on occasions. the guys i hunt around are retired and hunt 6 days a week and they do not kill them in the tree. sure does make for some tough cats. i am not a hide hunter i enjoy going to the same spot over and over and finding a cat to run. yes we do need a locating tree dog in this country because of the big timber. a tree dog to me is not the dog standing there barking a hundred plus barks a minute. its the dog that when you get there it knows where the cat is. a good tree dog has the varmit. maybe sometime in the future i will get one of these running walkers or running walker crosses. then my hunting partners that laugh when i mention getting a running dog may be sorry. like i've read in some of the other posts it sure is nice to have your dog cross in the front. thank you as well for the response about the hunters horn dogs. i may have never known about the weak nose and weak brains. brains are very important to me. i talked to a fellow from mississippi i believe, he mentioned that he knew dads dogboys dad and he says his dogs are very intelligent and that they are among the same strand as clays.i was just going to pick out a stud dog in the hunters horn that looked good to me and have two pups shipped to me. sounds like i may have to change my strategy a little bit. keep em coming fun and friendly

[pegleg]

Hipshooter I hunted the arkansas on the co. side back in the eighties with black and tans also ran some coyote dogs between Lamar and Two Buttes. hunted up the cimirron in the OK. panhandle into NE NM. running cats up there is sure different but its fun no matter where or how

[Dads dogboy]

Jake,

Our friend in MS is the Real Deal, Dad just spent a week in FL with him. He has three young Hounds that are going to make top Rig Dogs.

If you are serious about getting some Running Blood in your hounds, Dad gave a good friend Jerry King(he runs Fox/Cat) in North CA. a male pup who is out of the two Old Pros mentioned in Todays story, Queen and Rip. This Pup is 5 months old today so later this fall you can maybe get Jerry to let you breed a bitch to him. I will let Jerry tell you about him (I will PM you Jerry's #) as we try not to brag on our dogs and surely not other peoples. Suffice is to say that Jerry is very proud of him. Dad has given Mr. Jerry the OK to breed this Pup outside the line, I think Al might breed to him later.

Be careful about ordering running pups as the Pens have made lots of sorry Hounds if you are truly interested in buying some Running Pups PM me and I will give you the names of some Fox/Cat hunters in GA who are the real deal and have a line of Hounds that they have been breeding for years that will CATCH a Bobcat or Fox. They do sell some Hounds.

Hope this helps!

CJC

[Dan Edwards]

I know everybody keeps sayin this and I dont want to sound like a broken record but I have to say it too. DO NOT get a pen bred dog. You will be very unhappy more times than not. Good info being tossed around here gentlemen.

[catdog360]

To be honest, and I don't have any of these but have talked to guy that are hunting them. And that is Mike Kemp, they are all 1\4 trigg and seem to have the tree dog genes. I do know they can flat work the heavy brush we have on the coast. He will guarantee you satisfied , he will keep replacing them till your happy. Dad's dog boy said check Al luttrel, but read what Al said about Kemp's hounds , he said that the Kemp hound he bought was going to be his lead cat dog. Go to "TREEBEARKENNELS" I don't think you will be unhappy. Go to the source..............

[jake]

thanks again for the responses and a big thank you to dads dogboy. Breeding to that dog down there is the route i would like to take. that way i would know what the female is and what to expect out of it and maybe it can improve my strand. maybe in the fall or the next fall i can breed that dog i had for sale. im not going to sell her now we ended up getting through the rough times we were having, thank god. i sure would of hated to sell this dog. as for the mike kemp dogs, i do not want to take anything away from them. i've seen the movies, watched the clips they're very impressive. but im more of a start from a puppy type person. im not sure if he does that but it does not sound like he sells pups. a few of the guys around me have nothing but good things to say about the dogs they have from mike but they're all looking for a good tree dog now. maybe thats the same thing i will be getting into with these other dogs but if its out of my female i feel like i would have a lot better chance. ifs dads dogboy would like to pm me kings number that would be awesome. keep em coming fun and friendly

[catdog360]

Just realize you can't breed a poor tree dog to an excellent tree dog and get decent tree dogs. You get some excellent tree dogs and some poor tree dogs. You will either pass one gene or the other, and you can't create a gene.