Kicking a hornets nest

[LBell]

OK, I realize that I have not hunted dogs all my life. But I read alot and have tried to learn all I can to this point, and there is one thing that I see over and over again and it makes me laugh every time I see it. Cold Nosed Pups For Sale. It's a phrase you see in alot of adds all over, and I don't agree. You can't know what a pups nose will be like before there born or while their still on the tit. I realize that some will say that it is a trait breed for, but was the whole litter the parents came out of all cold nosed, if not the breeding thing must have been flawed. Hopeing the pups will turn out cold nosed is one thing. but useing it to advertised, come on, will you refund the money for the pup if it's not as cold nosed as someone wanted?? To me I think it's a tool people use to try and make the pups more appealing and easier to sell. My Opinion

[pegleg]

I AGREE This is why. Cold nose is a combination of traits IE. superior scenting ability superior intelligence and DESIRE. everyone Has experienced a pup out of top line that did not turn out because of a lack of one trait or more . lack of experience is the hunters fault so that is not relevant here, but if your breeding different lines of dogs that have what your looking for its a crap shoot as to what percent of genetics are going to line up right. To produce that great cold nose . In history most great hounds came from thoughtful breeding but what happened to Ol' Cold Nosed Cat Catching Bucks 9 litter mates?

[FullCryHounds]

I don't think I could add much to the first two posts. I think they nailed it. Personally after 25 years of running hounds, I've only seen 3 hounds that I would say were cold nosed dogs. I mean the type that lick rocks to pick up more scent type of dogs. I had one, would I want another dog that was that cold nosed? No, you don't catch many cats when you are a day or two behind them.

[pegleg]

I know what you mean but is that really cold nosed? to me i want a hound that can do that AND run it. not just waddle along enjoying the scent. thats when a combination of ability "scent and atheletic" added to the desire to catch game make a true cold nosed hound

[Dads dogboy]

Please refer to Mike Leonards quote from Warner Glenn "He is Cold Enough" that says it all!

Breeding two Hounds of different pedigrees is a "Crap Shoot"! To quote a Famous Texas Fox Hunter and Hound Breeder, he said "I would rather have my good bitch get Snake bit than breed her to a Hound with more than 20 different Hounds in a 5 generation pedigree". You must have some Genetic consistancy to have any HOPE of knowing what Pups are going to be like!

Breeding two superior individuals of differing blood lines will get you a statistical probability of less than 25% of repeating any of either parents traits. This does not mean that you might not luck out and have all of a litter be servicable Hounds. This speaks to Genetic certanty that desired traits will be replicated.

For great reading on Hound Breeding and Gentics go to www.foxhoundspastandpresent.com Click on the breeding article page and enjoy!

Our Thoughts

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[walkersrule]

i bet you couldnt even count how many people on here claim to have cold nosed pups and are selling them for big bucks JUST because they are papered.

[Mike Leonard]

Breeding two Hounds of different pedigrees is a "Crap Shoot"! To quote a Famous Texas Fox Hunter and Hound Breeder, he said "I would rather have my good bitch get Snake bit than breed her to a Hound with more than 20 different Hounds in a 5 generation pedigree". You must have some Genetic consistancy to have any HOPE of knowing what Pups are going to be like!


Now that is right on the money/

Liz,

I wouldn't worry about stirring up a hornets nest because a lot of folks don't know a hornet from a wasp but either way you are going to get bit.LOL!

There is an old saying that never loses it's flavor.

THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN THE EATING.


Why wouldn't that wise old man want to breed his good female to a hound that had as many as 20 different hounds in it's 5 generations pedigree.


THINK THINK HARD!

[Ike]

THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING IS IN THE EATING.

The way I heard it was, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I'm eating my share of pudding."

ike

[Nolte]

Breeding two Hounds of different pedigrees is a "Crap Shoot"! To quote a Famous Texas Fox Hunter and Hound Breeder, he said "I would rather have my good bitch get Snake bit than breed her to a Hound with more than 20 different Hounds in a 5 generation pedigree". You must have some Genetic consistancy to have any HOPE of knowing what Pups are going to be like!

Breeding two superior individuals of differing blood lines will get you a statistical probability of less than 25% of repeating any of either parents traits. This does not mean that you might not luck out and have all of a litter be servicable Hounds. This speaks to Genetic certanty that desired traits will be replicated.

Now I agree very much with what was said above, but let me play devil's advocate here. What do you do when this "line" starts to level off or not produce dogs that are/were as good as the original. Or they start to have shortern life spans or the key dogs you'd like to continue breeding turn out to be sterile. How about if you see a dog or dogs that are superior to this "line" in certain ways or maybe all ways. What is the plan of attack then? I'm just curious and throwing it out there.

I'm not a rocket surgeon and just guy who hunts dog. If they do good enough they stick around, if not they don't. If I see something better I usually give it a whirl.

[LBell]

Boy this was a whole differnt response then i thought I was going get. It's glad to see some of you more experienced guys feel the same way, and I totaly agree with the crap shoot idea. So many people think a batch of pups is a good way to help out with the feed bill, and it is to bad because alot of knot heads get bred that shouldn't have got the chance. Mr. John Wick wrote in cooner that he had a very good walker dog from good lines that did everything very well in the cooning world but said he was not really amazing at anything and because of the fact there is all the walker blood out there he was not going to breed him. Very respectful thing to do in my mind. As far as bringing in new blood when an old one needs freshened up a bit, in my mind pick the best dog you can find that suites you the best make the cross and pray for the best.

[Dads dogboy]

LBell, et al,

You are so right, Pick the best that you can find, that has been bread with some genetic consistancy, cross your fingers, and load your gun!

As to shorten life spans, sterility, senelity and other genetic booboos, as of yet we have not had any show up! Might happen the next litter but not yet.

This is why Dad has been lucky in the past being able to find Grey Fox Hunters who have bred very close to the same Line of Hounds. Dad was then able to out cross but stay close to his program. Unfortunately these men were older than Dad and are gone.

Dad spends a great part of his time thinking and trying to figure out where his next out cross will come from. We got some Penn-Marydels to try. Mr. Ben Hardaway told us these Hounds were too plodding to work and He was sure right. Mr. Ben has been trying to help Dad locate an Irish Harrier type Hound to try. These type Hounds come from the farmer type Packs, where Nose, Brains, Mouth and the desire to Catch are still being bred for. It is my understanding (maybe our overseas friends can speak to this) that these farmer type foot Packs are allowed to still Catch depredating Fox.

We may have to try the Line of Hounds that you all may have read me telling Jake and Perk about. There are some very good Fox/Cat hunters around Jessup, GA. whro have been breeding a line of Hounds of the Bourbon/Liquor strain. These Hounds have Nose, and the Brains to use it, and great Mouths. These have been bred to run Grey Fox/Bobcat for many years.

Enough Rambling!
C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[pegleg]

SO SINCE EVERYONE AGREES WHO'S GOING TO ORGANIZE A TESTING AND REGISTRATION ORGANIZATION FOR THESE "SMART COLDNOSED CAT MINDED HOUNDS"?