Question for bobcat hunters in Southeast

[Big Mike]

I always figured that a bobcat dog that could trail a bobber in the hot humid southeast would make a good lion dog in my country. As i read ya'lls postings and im learning how you hunt im beginning to think that they wouldnt work. Only time i hunt bobbers on purpose is in the snow with marginal success. My dogs trail to much and dont put enough pressure on them to be real successful. I catch a few in the dirt but by accident while I am lion hunting and they are red hot jump chases.

Ok with that said here's my question?? How much cold trailing do you do? Do you avoid too cold of nose dogs in favor of hunting where they are and not where they have been? And how cold/old of tracks do you mess with(obviously your dogs have to trail some before the jump). I know conditions/time of year all affect this but Im asking in general?

Mike

[Dads dogboy]

Big Mike,

Dads Hounds as a rule have moderatly cold noses, with one or two out of a litter being colder than the rest.

As to how cold, there in lies the problem. Comparing apples to oranges is tuff. Our scenting conditions are not as consistant as yalls out west. I think that is the best way to put it maybe Big N Blue or Mr. Mike Leanord can help me better put what I am talking about into words.

Dad has trailed Bobcats that walked 12 hours before, trailed em up jumped them, ran em, and caught them! He has taken the same Hounds down the same road a week later seen a Cat cross the road and not gotten a single bark. You tell me cold nosed or not?

As we have stridently tried to explain to people here on BGH, scenting conditions are volatile at best here in the southeast. They can be very good and change in the same hour.

Now havng said all that. One of the more famous Lion Hunters in the Country has one of Dads Hounds and he speaks well of him. He shall remain nameless as he did not know where the Hound came from when he got him, just knew he was a running Hound. Dad had given a pup to a fellow he had lion hunted with. That man did not think much of a running dog and was going to kill the pup. His hired man took it and ended up moving away and gave the Pup to a much better Hunter who has used the Hound for several years. Jelousy being rampant in the Hound world I would not want to cause anyone problems. So no names are mentioned!

Dad tries to run every track his Hounds strike. We don't often stop and say that strike is too cold lets find another. Several reasons:
#1 He wants to hear his Hounds work, and nothing is as fullfilling as having Hounds that you have raised for 13 generations stike a 12 hour old track trail it up and jump it and run it to termination on the ground or in a tree.
#2 We never know if we will find another Bobcat on that hunt. You just never know so we do not take chances, we let the Hounds work it out!
#3 A cold strike can be where a Cat turned out of the road after feeding and the Cat is layed up not far away, thus yeilding a short trailing job.

When Dad has hunted out in Western OK or West or Southwest TX he has not had any trouble moving tracks struck where possible. Could these Hounds move a week old Lion track? Probably not, but this is not what they are Bred for. This is where you need Ms. Liz's UKC Trail Bred Hounds!

Hounds should be selected for the desired purpose and the country and environment they are to be hunted in!

Hope this makes sense!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[Mike Leonard]

C. J.,

Makes a heck of a lot more sense out of it than I could ever do. I a, just so glad we have you here to impart some of the wisdom that has been handed down to you from you Dad. But I bet your Dad is proud this Father's Day to know that not only are you continuing the bobcat tradition but expanding the knowledge that you both have gained by sharing it with us. Many thanks!

And as far as wanting a dog that can work a week old lion track on dirt that can happen once in a blue moon when the stars line up right and the is perfect but it doesn't do you a dog gone bit of good.

far as a snow track I have told this story before but I had a big tom cross by an old line shack in a deep dark canyon I use to hunt in Colorado. We circles around and caught this lion when that track was fresh. Well the sun never really got on this track where it by the line shack and it never really melted out. Them dang dogs would strike and try to run that track from there every time i came back to that canyon. Oh sure they may have known the track was there before but there was no doubt they were still smelling lion and this went on till spring thaw. Just one of those spots, and it didn't do me a dang bit of good but slow me down cussing them dogs back to go and get away from there.

You want dogs that have a cold enough nose to strike and trail any track that is in the realm of catching. This as you said can vary widely from place to place and hour to hour but I would bet the good dogs that get it done consistantly would given the chance work in a whole lot of places.

[Big Mike]

Thanks for the answer. Definitely hard to compare our scenting conditions. I agree yours are more inconsistant than ours. Thats why I always thought that a dog that could trail in your area would work very well in mine

As for trailing up a 12 hour old track with dogs you have bred and trained, well doesnt get any better than that in the hound world. Any dog that can do that on a bobber I would definetly give the title of a cold nosed!!

[Smith]

I will tell you that I have bobcat dogs in west Texas, dry ground and can catch some cats, but I have been trying for 2 years to use the same dogs to catch lions and they just can not do it. I have hunted some dang good lion country and ran some lions for 2 to 3.5 hours and have not killed one. I dont know if they are scared of it or just not been at the right place at the right time or what, but they can not do it. A guy out of South Texas whos name is Wayne Ellisor has some dang good bobcat dogs and catches tons of bobcats. He went down to Montemorales, Mexico and caught 2 bobcats and 2 lions in one trip. He also took some awsome pics, I will try to get them on here, I am new to this website but you tell me why his dogs can catch lions but my dogs can not! Maybe his dogs are alot better than mine. I want to catch lions so bad that I am selling my running walkers and looking for some dry ground lion dogs. But you tell me cause I sure dont know and it is bugging the hell out of me that my dogs wont catch a lion.

[Hipshooter]

Smith,
Please check your PM,s
Hipshooter

[Dads dogboy]

Casey,

As I told you in another Post look up Ted Lemasters (sp) from the Amarillo area. He catches Lion and Bear in NM and runs Coon and Bobcat around Amarillo and in western OK. He runs some straight Hounds as well as some Cur crosses. Dad speaks highly of him as a Hunter and Houndsman!

He is close (for TX anyway) and hunts the same kind of country you do!

Wayne Ellisor does have REAL good Hounds. We have not hunted with him but know others who do on a regular basis. They have nothing but good to say about he and his Hounds!

Good Running!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy