BOBCAT / LION

[high desert hounds]

I have a question for all the guys that have either hunted or owned a Jeff Allen dog.
1] Do you think in general they make better lion or bobcat dogs

2] Do you think in your exsperience the old strain or the nance dogs are better and witch one excells on what.

3] What is the quality in the dog or dogs you have hunted that made them better at they're best species.

Now I know there are a ton of guys hunting these dogs so lets here from all of you guys on this deal.

[Mike Leonard]

I can only give you my opinion. I have hunted a bunch of Jeff's old strain dogs, and although I have never got Nance dog from Jeff I do have that bloodline in my walkers and some of his are closely related to or littermates to mine.

Jeff's oldstrain dogs were never selected for bobcat dogs. they were seriously culled and selected to catch lions and bare ground conditions. this strain has had a high percentage of successful bare ground lions dogs.Jeff is very hard to please and he will cull a dog quick and if it hunts hard and makes trees but won't cold trail bad tracks to suit him he will sell him usually to a hunter that doesn't have to contend with the bare ground so much. He will not breed them or put his name on them. Jeff is not a bobcat hunter, oh he catches some but he is a lion hunter. And his strain are lion dogs, that will occasionaly put out a real bobcat dog.Jeff will tell you himslef he breeds for a lion hound that is wide open on a track and uses plenty of mouth. This is fine for most lions(not spoiled ones), but is not always the best choice for a bobcat dog that hunts the way we do out west.Sometimes a little silence is golden.

The Nance dogs were developed by a coonhunter who was a serious breeder and was respponsible for the seperation and registration of the most popular breed of trail and tree hounds in the world ( the Treeing Walker). In earlier days before the advent of big money hunts some of these Nance bred old time dogs were selected by big game and bobcat hunters who liked their cold nosed trailing ability along with their ability to go to the air and wind and drive with speed and endurance. Men like Bob Morosok and others selectively crossed these dogs and came up with a big game strain of cold nosed walkers that worked exceptionally well on western bobcat and mountain lions in the snow or bare ground.These dogs did very well thru many years but as time grew on some of the qualites were allowed to slip which usually happens when a strain of dogs gets very popular and the demand factor comes up. Thankfully several very good crosses were made breeding closely along the lines of Nances Little Topper ( who was by the way the only two time back to back world champion bobcat dog).Several hunter/breeders have capitalized on this line and by selectively breeding only proven hunting stock that meet the criteria some very good represnitives in this line are once more available. As with the old Allen strain of I have considerable experience although not as much yet with the Nance dogs.


That being said my opinion is that given the right cross you stand a better than average chance of getting a dog that has the proper working qualites to be consistant on bobcat within the S.W. Nance line. Many of these will also make fine lion dogs.

Given the proper cross on the old strain that Jeff has built up you stand an excellent chance of getting a super tuff footed, ground pounding, track grubbing dirt lion dog.

[bency]

Mike,

So if the nance line of dogs has the, "ability to go to the air and wind and drive with speed and endurance"...well what about Jeffs old strain of lion dogs. How do they compare in this certain trait?

[Shorty]

Bency,
I have never hunted with Jeff or his dogs. I would be willing to guess that Jeff's dogs have been bred for many years to pound out a rough track that most dogs don't know is there. They'll also have some of the finest feet a dog can have. He hunt's some rough country and his dogs have to have some damn good feet to hold up. The rest is pretty obvious, they're bred to catch game in the worst of conditions.

[bency]

Shorty,

Thanks for the input. Im currently hunting some of jeffs dogs now but was just curious to what others thought.
I believe they compare equally to the nance stuff...that i also have in my kennel.