Any USAR dog handlers?

[DerekE]

A guy I work with at the fire department wants to get into USAR (Urban Search and Rescue) dog handling. He hasn't been able to find out much information about it. Thought with all the dog people here someone might have some experience with it. Anyone?
Thanks,
Derek

[LCK]

Been handlin SAR and Cadaver dogs for 16 years now. Have your buddy get on barnes-noble or one of those online book stores and order a book written by Suzanne Bulanda called Ready. It is a step by step beginners handbook on training a people finding dog. He can also get on the NASAR web page and find a lot of reference materials. He could also contact his local Sheriff's Office and see if they have any contact info on SAR dog groups in his area. There are a lot of resources available. Good luck.

[bigboarstopper]

I was a member of the search and rescu team in monterey county for a few years and I have had many experiences with search and rescue dogs. I hate to say it but the dogs were usless. At least the ones in my area. There was a girl kidnapped and murdered in our area and we had SAR dogs from 5 counties looking for 2 weeks in the surrounding woods where the girl was abducted. We had tracking dogs and cadaver dogs. a year later her body was found less than 3 miles away from her home 20 feet off a dirt path by a survayer. A spot coverd on our search grid. Im speaking from my experience and my area alone but I think those dog handlers had any dog sence at all.

[LCK]

I was a member of the search and rescu team in monterey county for a few years and I have had many experiences with search and rescue dogs. I hate to say it but the dogs were usless. At least the ones in my area. There was a girl kidnapped and murdered in our area and we had SAR dogs from 5 counties looking for 2 weeks in the surrounding woods where the girl was abducted. We had tracking dogs and cadaver dogs. a year later her body was found less than 3 miles away from her home 20 feet off a dirt path by a survayer. A spot coverd on our search grid. Im speaking from my experience and my area alone but I think those dog handlers had any dog sence at all.

Yep, there are a lot of wannabe posers in the field. No standards and no one to enforce em if there were. A dog is certainly not a magic wand. A LOT of people expect em to be sometimes. You can be 3 inches from a victim and if the wind isn't putting the scent in the dogs nose, they simply can't smell it. Scent has to be available for even the best dog to do it's job. Unfortunately, there are very few competent dogs in the SAR field. For every 100 dogs you might find one or two that are worth feeding. Sad but very true. There are some good teams around, but way more attention seekers.

[DerekE]

That's what was confusing my friend. He could find no standards or certifications to become a handler. There should be strict guidelines to ensure the search team is not relying on a dog that is not capable, especially when someone's life is at stake.

[LCK]

There are volenteer teams with strict standards in some area's. He just has to find a group he respects and go from there. Thats the problem with volenteer civilian dog teams, very little accountability.

[Buddyw]

I wouldn't mind, helping with SAR.. Not nessisarly dogs, Just getting out and helping look for Lost Kids.

To meet Those "standards" around herethey want to tell me I have to spend a weekend each month "Training"..

I'm sorry but I spend a hell of a Lot more time in the woods than that and I'm willing to bet that I've spent allot more time in Shit holes than the average Search and Rescue guy has.

Don't get me wrong.. They have good intentions.. But most of the ones that I've seen were Yuppies that thought they were Woods wise..


A guy got lost years ago here, and SAR were all over the area.. Well The lost man's brother was a Legislator and happend to be Hound guy.. Pretty much pulled his weight and Said, My guy's will be allowed to go in there and help with the search against SAR will... So My Friend Rod, Pulls up in a Beat up pickup.. shoves a Dinner roll and a PBJ sanwich in his Flannel and drops off the side right past all these Big REI fancy Back Packs.. SAR was telling him he couldn't do that He would get lost and then they would have to look for him..

Well after a Couple hours In the bottom he finds the guy, Broken leg, so he builds a fire, get's him warmed and some of his sandwich, and Heads out for help to pack him out.. (Meanwhile another hound guy started from the bottom, and found them Both)

Rod Leaves the Two guys together, and heads out for SAR to bring in Packers.

He said it took him 10 minutes, to get the SAR folks to shut up long enough for him to explain that he was "the second Lost guy" and where the first Lost guy was and the best way to get him out.. (By the way SAR had declared Rod was Lost also becasue he wasn't back to his truck by Dark.)

But I just chuckle, that Two Hound guys from Two completely different directions were able to find him with in a day and the whole SAR group was clueless and arrogant...

I don't think they appreciate the stuff that we drop into chasing dogs and how well we know the country we hunt in.

Hope he doesn't get that arrorgant do-gooder aspect.

[LCK]

I wouldn't mind, helping with SAR.. Not nessisarly dogs, Just getting out and helping look for Lost Kids.

To meet Those "standards" around herethey want to tell me I have to spend a weekend each month "Training"..

I'm sorry but I spend a hell of a Lot more time in the woods than that and I'm willing to bet that I've spent allot more time in Shit holes than the average Search and Rescue guy has.

Don't get me wrong.. They have good intentions.. But most of the ones that I've seen were Yuppies that thought they were Woods wise..


A guy got lost years ago here, and SAR were all over the area.. Well The lost man's brother was a Legislator and happend to be Hound guy.. Pretty much pulled his weight and Said, My guy's will be allowed to go in there and help with the search against SAR will... So My Friend Rod, Pulls up in a Beat up pickup.. shoves a Dinner roll and a PBJ sanwich in his Flannel and drops off the side right past all these Big REI fancy Back Packs.. SAR was telling him he couldn't do that He would get lost and then they would have to look for him..

Well after a Couple hours In the bottom he finds the guy, Broken leg, so he builds a fire, get's him warmed and some of his sandwich, and Heads out for help to pack him out.. (Meanwhile another hound guy started from the bottom, and found them Both)

Rod Leaves the Two guys together, and heads out for SAR to bring in Packers.

He said it took him 10 minutes, to get the SAR folks to shut up long enough for him to explain that he was "the second Lost guy" and where the first Lost guy was and the best way to get him out.. (By the way SAR had declared Rod was Lost also becasue he wasn't back to his truck by Dark.)

But I just chuckle, that Two Hound guys from Two completely different directions were able to find him with in a day and the whole SAR group was clueless and arrogant...

I don't think they appreciate the stuff that we drop into chasing dogs and how well we know the country we hunt in.

Hope he doesn't get that arrorgant do-gooder aspect.

Buddy, what you just wrote summs up exactly what I have had to put up with for the last 16 years!!!!

REI yuppy, book reading, helmet wearing, weekend warriors, who would never consider stepping away from the trailhead without at least $2000 worth of chit strapped to their backs.

I get called out for searches on average 20 plus times a year with my dog team throughout the western U.S. We show up in our old beat up vehicles, no uniforms, no REI bullshit gear, and we generally have a real good dog fight during the "briefing". Most folks break up dog fights, we just bet on who's gonna win and enjoy the show. I get a real kick out the comments and looks we get from the so called SAR pro's. I think I get more satisfaction out of "horrifying" the yuppy's than I do finding someone anymore. We generally find what were looking for and are more often than not invited back for the next one.

The SAR industry has been good to me over the years, but neither I nor my team will ever buy into the REI crowd. You can read a thousand books on how to be in the woods, and spend a million dollars on the latest gear, but nothing replaces actually being in the woods, and following hounds is about the best way to learn what you really need and what you don't.

[Buddyw]

LCK..
Now if we had a team like that around here I would be more than willing to help out.

I'm glad that not all are like that, but I see them in the sportsman show every year and I talk to them, but I just can't stand to be around them too much, they seam more interested in their Qualifications, and training then some Help that isn't afraid to cut through canyons and put some miles in off trial..

Not to divert the post too much, but I always wondered how effective it would be to Drop a couple guys off and have them Walk the canyons towards the Center, rather than work from the Center spot out?? Kinda an Outward-In search, over an inward-out? And I'm not sugessting one over the other, but both at the same time. Maybe they do that? I don't know.

We were walking a Gated road directly across the canyon of one search and not one person was on our side of the canyon searching, The Plane flew over us probably to check us out and make sure, but that was about it.

And as much as I want to help out, I've just learned that they just pretty much snub their noses when a good ol woods boy shows up to help, every once in a while I still call up and offer, but they haven't responded once.

Sounds like at least you have some credibility built up, That's probably the difference between everytime I offer for help.. I always get the "we got it covered" answer.

[LCK]

About the best way to help, is to build a relationship with the local Sheriff's Office. Most, if not all, western states Sheriff's have jurisdiction concerning search/rescue operations in their respective county's. Unfortunately the business of finding lost people has become a very litigous activity. law suits resulting from search efforts are increasing almost by the hour it seems. One way, we (law enforcement) have learned to avoid many of these actions is to "require" so called qualified and or certified personell in the field only. As a result, this has created a cottage industry for instructing on the "proper" and "safest" way to deploy people into the woods. In real terms, things have gone to hell in a handbasket for the most part. When lawyers and common sense collide, common sense always takes a hit.

When I was in a position to command searches in my former county, the very first people I called on were houndsman and other hardcore hunters and cowboys who know the area. They didn't always get to get in the woods, but they dang sure ran the show as far as where the searchers went. Never lost one person on a permanent basis as a result.

Sorry for rambling on, but this is a good topic.