couple of rigging questions

[dubl_t]

I didn't want to step on Mr Clay's post regarding "bobcat hunter's", but I have some questions regarding rigging. 1st off, this is all pretty new to me.
Now, regarding rigging, how "fast" should one be going down the road, and 2nd, would it be better to put the dogs in front of the truck or up on the box.
Years ago up on the Clackamas River I was hunting grouse when this truck came moseying by with 3 hounds in a box mounted on the front bumper. That's why I ask this.

Thanks, Tom.

[pegleg]

I don't rig for bobcats so my opinion is that and only that. generally your climate -temps,humidity, wind, soil type and vegetation all play a role in determining the best place to place your platform. The hunting rig itself also plays a role in location, does it lend itself to putting the dogs down low enough to catch the lingering scent etc. I always kinda thought that surely the lower and closer to the front a hound is the better their chances at picking up scent. However if you watch a simulation of air flowing over a vehicle it shows the currents and their flow along the vehicles side at low speeds and then a transfer at higher speeds of more air going over the top. a flat bed may offer advantages by putting the hounds closer to the ground but any rig where the hounds can scent from the sides of the vehicle gets my vote as they are in position to get more air flow from a wider swath and differing levels at rigging speeds. my example is a hound rigging from the side of a stock trailer 30 feet back from the front bumper. if the only way to catch scent is from the top or very front this would never have happened. I am sure there are many theories on this and I as interested in the thought process behind them as much as anyone.

[Dads dogboy]

Folks,

We are not the definitive source for rigging information, but here is what works for us and some of our reasoning as to why. Also here is a rerun pic of Dad and his Rig.




1st. The air is a lot cleaner on top of the Dog box as oposed to on the Hood or the front bumper. I know lots of Bear hunters rig off the hood and on platforms low in front of the bumper. However an ole Bears scent is heavy and tends to stay low to the ground. Up until they closed the Bear Season in Florida Dad and his neighbors hunted Bear with the same intensity that Dad has always hunted Cat, so he has some knowledge and expierence with them.

Also on the hood the Hounds have to deal with the Heat rising off the motor, there is also a plethura of odors arising with this heat. A Bobcats Scent is so light and fragile that Dad feels that this will mask the scent on all but a smoking hot Cat.

As we talked about in the other Post, we feel that the rising Bobcat Scent tends to hang about 4 to 6 feet off the ground in the air and on the vegitation beside the road. Getting the Hounds up to this height sure seems to help them in being able to smell the scent well enough to bark.

In the above pics you can see that the Hounds tend to stand with their heads out over the side of the Box giving them plenty of clean air, we do try to hunt into the wind as this seems to increase the number and quality of strikes. We are not always able to do this, but if Hounds strike and can not locate where the Cat left the road we will some times load them back up and hunt back the way we came; about 25% of the time this trick will yield a better strike and will develope into a trailable track.

2nd. As to the speed we travel Dads rule is between 10 and 15 MPH. When the Hounds strike we tend to stop, and then back up 50 to 100 yds. This give the Hounds a chance to verify a colder track and seems to help them in locating the Cats direction of travel better. Now on that smoking Hot Rig blow up, that you wish happened everytime, we just stop and release them right away. We only put the Rig dogs down to find where the Cat left the road, it seems that releasing more Hounds is like having too many cooks in the Kitchen. As soon as something opens off the road we release the older trailing Hounds and as the track developes, feed in the younger Hounds.

No matter wether you back up or not most of the time the Cat will be behind you when you stop. But like with all things with Cat Hunting the next one you rig will be ahead of you. There will be times that you strike a Cat when he has just come out into the road to begin feeding, he will usually crap shortly after hitting a road(this will generate a stike most of the time), then feed down it, and might travel down it several miles if it is an ole Tom. This kind is darn hard to get off, you might have to put the Hounds back up several times before you will hit him hot enough to find where he turned out of the road to start to trail him up, This is what happened to us Saturday night when Hipshooter was with us.

So long for now as I am beat up, we went down to Glenns with Dads Hounds and Rigged 63 miles and only got one cold strike that we could not trail. Game did not move after dark as we did not see any varmits of anykind. Keep asking questions and I will get Dad to tryand answer them!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[DerekE]

Thanks

[Dads dogboy]

CasB just asked us in a PM about the statement I made about the Bobcats Scent being so "Light and Fragile"

He said how smelly a freshly killed Cat he picked up on the road was. I thought others might want to read our answer.

No Sir, a live Cat has very little scent compared to other game animals. But the Bobcat is like all Cats, they have very little body fat, therefore their muscle tissue will start o decompose faster than say a Coon. Therfore more stink sooner!

I have puked my guts out picking up a dead Cat after a catch it stinks so bad. Yet that same Cat just minutes before came down an old logging road right past, within inches of me and you could not smell a thing.

If you tree a Cat that has been run hard they will sometimes fall out as they become stiff so quick because of the muscle tissue breakdown from the over exertion, trying to stay ahead of the Hounds. This is why a Cat that does not tree will sometimes fall over dead ahead of the pack and you will hear NO bay or fight. Lots of times when this happens hunters think that their pack has thrown the game away, they did not, the Cat died in his tracks and the Hounds can't figure it out, and hush and come to the truck.

This happens to us a couple times a year, now with the Garmin I can mark the spot the Race ended and have been able to retrieve several Cat that otherwise we would have wondered about!

Hope this helps, we are not scientests, but this is our expierences!

CJC

[Poon]

Hey Dogboy; I finally figured out how to post on this site. I am going to tie Sonny, Millie, Hazel , and Betty on top of the box and try this rigging. If it works for me it will save hundreds of miles of wear on my dogs.

[Dads dogboy]

Poon,

Just be patient with them! You are lucky in that you hunt in Country with sandy roads, so you can find the track of the Varmit that they strike! Getting confidence that your Hounds are striking the right game is half the battle. Where you are you should be able to find the Varmits track most of the time.

You may want to only put two up at a time until you get somebody started. My money is on Sony to catch on quick!

Dad and I went last night, this will be our last hunt here until we get back from FL. We treed 4, two really should not count as they were Kittens who only ran 5 min ea., but the other two ran over an hour each before climbing. The last one we were worried that they were going to catch him, that would have been OK but when you do he is not there to run again!

Glen Rybard called while we were running the second Cat, they were running one right where we had hunted so hard the night before. They ran theirs for over 3 hours before he climbed. He has 5 of his Clay Hounds locating up big trees real well; when they locat the other 11 all tree like Cur dogs. He is still not sure if this is going to be good or not as getting to the trees here can be damn near impossible!

Will call you when we get to FL!

Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[BigGameHunter]

I will tell you......I thought was was pretty darn tough on bobcats in these parts. I do as good as the next guy around here, maybe sometimes a little better but reading through these posts that guys like Dad's Dogboy and Hipshooter lay out on the table I have decided that in the bobcat department, I have a ways to go. I think you guys know more about bobcats than I know about the back of my own hand. I appreciate the comments and look forward to the insites you share in the future!
on me!

[david]

Hey Dogboy; I finally figured out how to post on this site. I am going to tie Sonny, Millie, Hazel , and Betty on top of the box and try this rigging. If it works for me it will save hundreds of miles of wear on my dogs.

Poon some dogs will rig real naturally, some have to be taught. The one thing I absolutely love about having a dog on the hood is that you can watch them. A dog will show you with his body language that he smells a cat. He might not bark if he has possibly learned that there are places where it is not OK for him to bark. When you notice a dog has computed a cat but has not said anything, leave him tied up and let a couple other dogs down. When they strike it on the ground, do not let the original dog down until he opens. Then praise him and let him down. He will quickly learn that all he needs to do for his candy, is ask

[Hipshooter]

How to be a successful bobcat hunter

1. Have bobcats at your back door, If u have to travel long distance to hunt, not good.
2. Have a good population of cats.
3 Have lots of permission to hunt, nothing worse than hunting a place to hunt.
4. Have dogs bred right for bobcats.
5. Hunt every night or at least 3 to 5 nights a week.
6. Be retired or have money enough that u don,t have to work.
7. There is no cheap way to hunt bobcats on a regular basis.
8. It takes long time to train bobcat dogs, & buying them if u can find one for sale is very expensive.
9. Have a wife that don,t care about u staying out all night chaseing the cats & dogs.
10. Be able to sleep all day.
11. Have a buddy that will hunt with u and pay half the gasoline. It usally takes a tank a night.
12. Be persistant & not give up, lots of nights u wont get a bark, weather not good for smelling or the cats aren,t walking.

These are some of the reasons there aren,t many bobcat hunters.

[DerekE]

Number 3 is a trick around here, and bow season kicking off now. That shuts down a lot of places til afer first of the year.

[dubl_t]

Many thanks everybody for the info.

#9. As long as I ain't chasin anything else she don't care

Tom.

[dubl_t]

Mr Clay, that's a TRUCKLOAD of hounds! (if you blow up the top pic you can see a handful of "noses" in the bed as well)

Where does the red hose from the water tank go to?

[Dads dogboy]

DoubleT,

The Red hose goes from the h2o tank at the top of the headache rack to a bucket at the back door of the box. There is one on each side of the box, these are two gal in size and we try to keep them full. The Hounds drink lots of water, high humidity seems as tough on them as high temps. We also keep a bucket on top for the Rig dogs to drink out of, they work awfully hard, up and own the road trying to find where a Cat has turned out of the road.

As long as you keep the Hounds well hydrated multiple races in a night are possible without hurting the Hounds. Even when running in water it seems that the Hounds don't stop to drink, then when they get to the truck they drink lots! Dad hunts his Hounds hard but he works equally hard to take care of them!

On this hunt we had Twelve Hounds with us. Dad likes to Hunt 10 to 12 at a time. The Pack make up is usually 8 Cat Dogs (these are 4 years of age or older, Dad feels that no matter how good a young Hound may seem, it takes 4 years for it to have run enough Cat, to have expeirenced all the tricks a Cat can pull to be called CAT DOGS. The other two to four hounds will be twelve months to three plus years of age ( these Hounds have passed numerous tests as Pups, and are "Broke N Broke Company" but not pressure Broke).

Thanks fo the questions!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

[Riverbottom]

C.J. that is one of the best set ups I have seen. Most houndsmen I feel don't do enough to keep their hounds from getting dehydrated. Lots of beaglers have dogs dying from kidney failure at 6 to 8 years old and can't figure out why. Ivomec always seems to get the blame!
I always carry water in warmer weather (above freezing). First thing my dogs look for when they come in is the water bucket.