Finding Lion on dry ground

[Conejos]

Well guys I'm sitting here at work wishing I was hunting an thought I would pop in for minute and ask you guys some questions. I got a good handle on my dogs now and they are doing ok on the dry ground but I am lookin for a little advice that mite get them on a little more game.
1. What are the best spots (land features ect) to look for lion sign?
I hunt on big mesas and mountains
2. What temperature and weather conditions are prime for the hounds to scent a lion in.

I think I know a little about this but was hoping I could get some "golden nuggets of knowledge" from some of you who have more experiance than me, and maybe save my feet and my horse a few miles.

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Mike Leonard]

Don't know about golden nuggets the ones I see are dropped from the dogs and they turn dark after a short time. LOL!


Mesa country is interesting but do not expect to cut a lot of sign in the canyons between the mesas as lion travels like no other critter. Look at the first major shelf line down from the crest and then hunt under there and look for travel lines along these walkways. They will move up to the top in areas where canyons come together and form a low saddle. Look under the largest based trees in these areas for tom markers. When you look from one ridge to another that is not connected look past it to the highest point you can see in the distance and then line yourself up with that and then make beleive you are a convict and don't want to be seen in the open and don't want to step on the ground if you can step on rocks and not leave a track. Lions don't really like to be out in the broad open for very long so they choose areas where chapparal and brush run close together to cross.

But all of these thing have contradictions and I have seen them walk right down a road thru a campground with people sleeping up to a hunter's camper trailer and then mill around so I guess at times they will do what they want.

If you find travel ways over the years always remember them for if they were once traveled a good deal other lions even years later will make use of them. Watch your dogs and if they act like they are getting amped up along rim rocks and such don't give up. Climb down and get under them shelves because lions go up and down these rock structures like a dang moneky at times just marking and looking and doing the things that lions do.


As old Dub Evans of the Slash Ranch said if a lion starts for the top of the mountain it's a pretty good be that is where he is going. LOL!

[MT.LionHunter]

We don't do much dry ground in MT but we look for tracks the same way we trap
saddles and natural game trail funnels. be where the food is, lions are where they want to be though. I know of a man in ID who's dogs rig lion on dry ground. when you cant find tracks on the road get out and walk where you think there might be some Ive followed lion tracks for a couple miles right along side the road and the lion never crossed the road just turned at the next gully and went up the hill my buddy followed tracks on a switch back road that never crossed the road so get the dogs out and walk you might up your odds. hope this helps some, maybe you already knew this though and in that case I'm sorry



[quote][/quote] P.U. was that you or the dog

[Conejos]

Thanks guys thats exactly what I was looking for. I usually walk the rims but now I think I will try to walk the next shelf down makes lots of sense. Where are some other likely spots to find scratches?

[liontracker]

While you are looking, watch for a habitual toilet spot that a female uses, particularly under an overhanging ledge. When she comes into heat, she will visit this spot and hang out there more than normal and the Toms in the area know this. At times it can almost be like a primary whitetail scrape. I have seen as many as 4 different Toms repeatedly visit one of these toilets in a 3 week period.

[2ndhound]

Good post conejos,I also am curious about this subject.The replies were informative and I think I know what they mean,But Im gonna try and post a couple pics so maybe Mike Leonard or Liontracker or whomever can point out where they would look,I already caught that walking up the bottom is mostly unproductive,But are you guys saying climb to the base of the cliff and sidehill across??

[Big Mike]

Interesting thing about lions is you can have two canyons that look the same and have the same looking habitat, rock piles and liony looking features and the lions will use one and not the other. I wonder what they like thats different?

In that big mesa country pictures i would look at the mouths of Small side canyon or shoots coming off the top mesa's down to the benches. Also long points that wind there way to the bottom. Then look at the base of the lower bluffs on the middle and lower benches good place for scapes. If there is rocky out cropping with big pine trees, they are a magnet for toms to scrape.

[R Severe]

If You keep in mind that the cats hunt with their eyes it solves about half of what and where they choose to travel.
The other half is territory and or mating. That solves the other half. The tough part is conecting the dots. For lion hunters that the number one reason for baldness

[Ike]

Most of the lion hunters hunt lions during the winter months, so I would start my search near those deer herds. Generally, the deer will winter in sagebrush flats or mesa benches with adjacent canyons in cliff-type, rocky habitat. The female lions may well be more centralized to the available prey with the tom lions moving from one female range to another scratching and checking for females in estrus. Most of the good toms move across a good distance and leave their sign across an entire drainage, that sign can be found crossing the mouth of those canyons, the head or anywhere between where a side canyon or drainage intersects the main one. If you don't have a robust lion population then tracks are where you find them. Younger lions are more likely to hold up in an out of the way place and not travel as far; likewise, a female with young will do the same when possible.

ike

[Mike Leonard]

2ndhound,

The upper photo shows no true promise but it is all perception from the camera eye so I can't tell however the second shows more actual promise on the lower levels. My guess would be the upper phot might prove and important crossover,and as Mr. Severe said a high visual point is never a bad place to look.


Although lions may look like they have wings at times, in their methods much as a range cow in her methods they usually choose the path of least resistance.

[crusherscott]

Mike, how about the lower country? we have had alot of lion sightings in the flats and down low close to town. Should i ride down the sand washes? Ollie Barney told me scent didnt hold very long in sand.

[Mr.pacojack]

Although lions may look like they have wings at times, in their methods much as a range cow in her methods they usually choose the path of least resistance.

Bingo. You will find them walking a dirt road more than in those cliffs.
And like Ike said you will find them where the food is. Just like any animal, they are drove by their stomachs not what we humans think they should do. If you have lions in the area, go were the food is and you will find them. They do not just go around looking for each others scrapes and other females to breed( many newbies are hung up on that) they are looking for food first and formost.

[Mike Leonard]

Right on Paco about the food. If you study a female lion's travels on a GPS chart you will see just how tru this is. It will be small clusters then a move small clusters and then a move but not all that far if the game is there. Dominant toms? Well they kill just about anytime they want to so they are driven not so much by food as females and subs and they have a terrible driving desire to cover country , mark, check and breed if possible. Many times you will find these toms will kill take on bait off the kill two at most and just walk off and leave it like they are late for the dance.


Scott,

Don't eliminate that low country but as Olley who is a Master hunter said Sand is terrible and doesn't hold scent very long.

I was hunting with Jeff Allen over near Kanab one time and we were out away from the bluffs a long ways just sage and red coral blow sand. Jeff is hanging his head out of the pickup and trying to stay on the road. I said what are you looking for? Lions he said. Out here in the flats? Oh yeah I find tracks out here all the time. Around the next bend bingo there was a track. Jeff dumps a horse and says I will follow it up to the bluffs and then you come around and we will let the dogs have it. Worked likie a charm becasue as long as the track was fresh and the wind wasn't blowing you could follow it at a long trot.

So you never know, and different areas, and game travels can change the tactics.

[Eric Muff]

We had 3 mature females GPS collared here for almost 3 years,the data showed the females to be very territorial.
Home ranges where alot smaller than you would imagine,infact they almost duplicted the home range of their prefered game of choice,mainly muledeer.So if you know of a herd of deer living in a specific locale you can bet those"Land Sharks" are close by.
Surprisingly the 3 toms we had collared at the same time had ranges that would really surprise you!
All the males were in the 160 lb plus range,so big fellas.When they were content to just hangout and feed at leisure the areas they stayed in where far smaller than the females consisting of a single big high mountain basin in one case!
However the information showed also that when the big boys took a notion to go looking they covered some big country often overlapping the home range of more than one female.
These trips would often be circles of nearly 80 miles during which the toms moved almost constantly.At the end of the loop it was straight back into that same high mountain basin where the tom might hangout for another 3 months or so and loop out again.
Not all loops were in the same direction either which to me meant that tom knew where his females lived and knew when each"could"be ready to breed as that leg of the journey was fairly consistent from year to year.Almost every trip "outta town" for the big boys happened when the weather was terrible,like in the middle of a big blizzard or rain storm.So put two and two together,if the weather is Chitty and you feel like throwing an arm overtop the little woman instead of heading out take care of that stuff later and pull your sweater on,that sucker is gonna be on the move!

[Mike Leonard]

Eric,

I think the more we really find out about the cryptic cougar the more we realize we never really knew much anyway. LOL!

If it wasn't for our fathful four legged friends we wouldn't even get to see them but possibly a time or two in our lifetimes outside of a zoo.


Oh well that's what keeps it interesting and crazy old me have the trailer hooked the saddles loaded and will be pulling out at dark thirty if the creek don't rise to go see if we can pick up one more pearl of wisdom or maybe I should say roll the dice. LOL!

Sort of like all these climate change experts they just know we are going to burn up in less than 10 years but on the other hand they can tell you with any certainty if it's going to rain out the friday night ball game. LOL!