11-21-09 Southern AZ Tom

ChasinTail · Post by **ChasinTail** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:05 am

Caught this tom yesterday. Didn't get many pictures of the dogs, had my still camera in one hand, and the video camera in the other. Maybe next time..

Enjoy...

Testing out my photo editing skills... lighting enhancement is all there is.

Cedar up in the tree again....

This is our client from Phoenix. He was giddy as a little school girl.... :lol:

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:59 pm

Nie cat Tyler! what do you think about a 6 year old? He has his 4+ ring but still pretty sharp but showing some coloration.

I like those eyes unreal if you really think about how well they can see at night.

ChasinTail · Post by **ChasinTail** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:15 pm

Mike, my guess is 5 or 6, but not more than 6 I don't think.

Mike Leonard · Post by **Mike Leonard** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:05 pm

I would say you are right no more than that. After that the change comes pretty quickly.

I heard that there was a tom turned in in Colorado I think last year that was aged at 15 years plus old. That is extreemly uncommon in the wild. Must have some tender vittles up where he was hanging out. LOL!

ChasinTail · Post by **ChasinTail** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:05 pm

The oldest lion we've ever caught was 10, and he had the battle scars of a warrior. He's the one on our website that we call crooked nose. He had probably tangled with many rank little coues bucks, he had antler puncture scars all over his face and neck...not to mention his nose was ripped in half...

rosin · Post by **rosin** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:06 pm

chasin tail , nice cat , whats your website. I would like to have a look if you wouldnt mind .

Yaak attack · Post by **Yaak attack** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:11 pm

since cats eat about the same amount of the same thing year round and have no growth rings, how can you tell a four year old from a six year old for sure.A friend havested two cats that were littermates, both ear tagged and one collared. The tooth drop on one was 4.2mm and the other was 6.5mm. How can this be?

pat_kemp · Post by **pat_kemp** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:35 pm

thats a good lookin tom nice job. congrats to you n your hunter.

ChasinTail · Post by **ChasinTail** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:20 am

yaak, The only way I know of for sure is to wait for G&F to do their examination of the tooth they pull when you take the lion in for physical check in.

I only guess 5 or 6 based on the way this tom's teeth look compared to others that have been sent in to G&F. There are guys on here that know way more about aging cats than I do, so I'll let those that know chime in...

B-N-Trees · Post by **B-N-Trees** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:49 am

I got a female last year that just about didn't have canines left they looked like the ivories on an elk and she had dark spotted gums too. The biologist approximated her age at 10-12yrs+. Then the next day we got a tom that was 6yrs+. I am still waiting for the official report, it will be interesting to know for sure. There are some well aged cats out there. Someone should start a thread about aging cats.

Any way that's a beautiful lion! Congratulations!

walkersrule · Post by **walkersrule** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:44 am

congratulations and nice pics. i really like the one in the middle. hope you catch more and post pics for us to look at. we dont have a season to run hounds on them in oregon, so all i can do is enjoy everyone elses hunts.
keep up the good work.

JIMMY

Yaak attack · Post by **Yaak attack** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:53 pm

It is a nice tom, no doubt. I was only making the point that ALL lion aging techniques are estimates based on available data. There are no anual growth rings on lions because they have no breeding or birthing season and eat the same thing year round. They don't den, they are not tlike ungulates, bears, canines or even weasels. How can you age an animal by a cross section of a tooth when no rings are present?

liontracker · Post by **liontracker** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:20 pm

The Colorado Division of Wildlife seems to think they can!LOL

az_gogetem · Post by **az_gogetem** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:56 pm

First off. TYLER AND DONNIE GREAT JOB. you guys are sure kickin everybodies butt this year.

Yaak, you are correct to a degree. It is nearly impossible to ACCURATELY determine the age of a lion after it is 4 years old. From 2-4 you can almost determine the age right down to the month. but >2 and you lose a lot of accuracy. biologists on the study here, used tooth recession, along with tooth wear and coloration to primarliy determine age of a cat. The oldest lion I've caught was a female with ZERO incisors left, her canines were practically worn down flat (blunt not sharp) she was a desert lion and had been surviving off primarily javalina, skunk and rabbit. the biologist looked at her teeth and said 10+ and said he had no way of accurately determining her age, all he could say is 10+ it is not an exact science.
http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/lion_aging/frame.htm

adios amigos
Mike

Yaak attack · Post by **Yaak attack** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:34 pm

Tooth wear is directly related to tooth use. When game is scarcer and a female has to eat bones to help her kittens and herself survive her teeth wear faster.. Tooth wear and tire wear are not that much different. Some guys get more miles out of a set just as some lions get more years out of a set.

11-21-09 Southern AZ Tom

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