well I was looking at the game and fish website and found out we only have four females left in our unit. And I have heard of one or two more on the way in.
Im finally about to wrap up all of my bull elk and deer hunting. So I have not even had a real god chance to hunt yet. In fact the ranch I hunt allows lion hunting after Dec. 1. It just pisses me off when people know the rules and still kill females out of their own greed. I have no problem killing some females but if its going to shut down the whole season, DONT DO IT.
Your not going to teach the game and fish anything by doing this. Although you will show them how willing you are to cut other lion hunters throats. I hope the rest of the state does better.
Joe Troyer Socorro, N.M. 575-707-3727
Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.
Interesting post, are you a guide? You worry about other people shooting females yet you say "I have no problem killing some females" and to give you credit, the credit you probably deserve, you probably mean... I don't have a problem with others killing some females, but don't ruin the way of life for those of us that just love to chase, tree, and shoot a tom that is either a monster or a lion that is dangerous. Very good post, just be careful of wording. Another thought not for you Lil Joes, but for all...Your game and fish departments will not look at it as cutting other lion hunters throats they will look at it as well we reached the female quota, did our job, and the season is closed. At least IMO
That same thing happened in Arizona during bear season. Filled the sow quota in first 10 days and closed the season. One group shot the last two sows on one hunt. Why would you raise hounds all year then come in and close the season up? Makes no sense at all.
Clarka57, Thanks for reading between the lines and understanding what I meant. I cant wright like Mike Leonard. But I can b*tch till I'm blue in the face. lol.
Thanks, Joe Troyer
Joe Troyer Socorro, N.M. 575-707-3727
Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.
I know exactly how you feel I'm over here in zone N and the same shit. In fact saturday a guy I know killed a damn 80 pound female. I felt like calling him up and bitching him out but I just don't know how to stop some peoples stupidity.
"True success is being able to move from failure to failure never losing ones optimism" Thomas Edison
Yeah we need help there dying of old age down here
We were a few days behind this one
I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
This will continue to be a problem in areas that have higher elevations and recieve lasting snow. Even more so if there is an infrastructure of forest roads and such that allow easy access.
The pressure to be the first to get on a track and then the pressure of knowing you have a paying client and he expects you to produce makes it very difficult to turn down any lion in the tree. I have heard the statement: Well I better whack that lion now because there are ten other trucks out here and the next person who catches it surely will so I better cash a check.
Cowboyvon, and bency as a general rule hunt areas that are more remote, drier climate and not condusive to quick client turnover. So yes they still have lions and some even growing old and dying naturally. Amazing!
Here is another little rub in this deal. So they go ahead and fill the female quota usually surpassing it by one or two before they get it shut down in the 5 day period. So then what? Just move to another unit that is not closed down and keep on going? Yes that's one option or they can just keep bobcat hunting legally, and if they happen to tree a lion and nobody is looking? Boom! Oh don't say it doesn't happen because enforcement is spread so thin in this big state they can't be everywhere. So load it up drive over to an open unit maybe only a few miles and tag it out of there. So there you go.....
I know this is not very encouraging, but it is what it is.
I am glad the made the change and put in the female quota but it certainly won't solve all the problems.
How about all units north of I-40 only open to sport harvest Sept1 thru Nov.30th. ? WOW! you would really hear some screaming and yelling on that one. I think it would be great if they offered pursuit only after this thur April1.
"The pressure to be the first to get on a track and then the pressure of knowing you have a paying client and he expects you to produce makes it very difficult to turn down any lion in the tree. I have heard the statement: Well I better whack that lion now because there are ten other trucks out here and the next person who catches it surely will so I better cash a check."
If outfitters would put a 1,000 dollar kill fee on the females. I think that would discourage that kind of thinking. In fact that's what we tell our guys. I wouldn't mind the extra grand but I would rather them keep their money. So I can keep dumping my money down the gas tank chasing those long tails.
I agree Mike that would piss a lot of folks off having that kind of season. I would really like to see that happen! I never thought of such season
Joe Troyer Socorro, N.M. 575-707-3727
Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people.
Just my 2 cents here. You can take it or leave it. I don't think it is the real houndsmen whacking the females and filling the quotas in the states with a female quota. From my experience and observation it is the outfitters that are taking hunters that are doing it. A real houndsman that has his own pack of dogs is not going to kill every cat they tree, if they do then they are not real houndsmen in my book. Now, you take an outfitter that has a client from the flatlands that is all gung ho to get a lion. The outfitter takes him out and they find a track. The outfitter knows it is a for sure thing. Here is a runnable track and if they pass it up there might not be another chance for Joe Flantlander to get to a cat tree as who knows when or if they will find another track in the 7 days this guy is booked for. So they dump the dogs and tree a female lion. Joe Flatlander is huffing and puffing and barely makes it to the tree. He sees the lion and thinks wow that will look good on my wall. The outfitter might or might now tell him it is a female lion and if he wants a tom he can pass on it. Joe Flatlander thinks about the hike to the tree and doesn't want to do that again so he takes the female and it is done. He gets his lion, could care less if it is a trophy tom or a 95 pound female. His buddies will be impressed back East and the story of how he had to hike 30 miles in knee deep snow and climb 6,000 feet to get to the lion. He could care less if the quota is filled and some houndsman with a good pack of dogs he has poured all his time and money in to get out and hunt a full season has to drive 100 miles now to hunt. Nope, I don't think it is the real houndsmen that are to blame. It is sad that this is happening, has been happening since the dawn of guided lion hunts. You can bitch and moan, I know I have, but it will do no good cause as long as Joe Flatlander wants to fork out cash, the outfitter is going to fill his tag.
I like my men like I like my mountains...... Rugged, challenging, and WILD!!!
Posse, I find your reasoning to be pretty shallow. I am from the East and know some of the people out here could stay with probably anyone where you hunt. Don't slam someone because where they are from! Because a client has paid good money for a hunt doesn't make him a villain, the guide telling him to pull the trigger is the greedy one, and that guide is your homey! Posse, if all the problem (which is BS) is from the East then close the state to ALL non-residents! I bet your hunters from joining states cause problems 10 to 1 from East coast hunters. I don't know anyone who has even been out West lion hunting. Blaming the problem on people from thousands of miles away can't explain why so many Western states are losing so many hunting priveleges, especially dog hunting priveleges. Best straighten out the locals before you worry about outsiders. I am from Va. and I know we are taking heat on dog hunting but it would be stupid of me to say it is because of people from out West, because it isn't. It is our own people locally causing 99% of the problems and it is the same where you are from. We can't even have guided hunts here and we still have problems. I hope your problems get solved as well as ours, but that will happen locally or it won't happen. Good hunting.
You very descriptively painted the real picture, I have seen it so many times. And no it is not the real lion hunters doing it, becasue those real lion hunters usually know when they put down on a track or when they check the track that their dogs have struck pretty quickly what they will find in the tree.
I had two expereinces in my hunting time that really confirmed what you are saying. Once while hunting in Colorado we were lucky enough to get on the trail of a huge old tom that later was scored well into the record book. It was one of the easiest lions I have ever treed in my life maybe the easiest but that being said I just got lucky. Several outfitters had been pounding the area and promising their clients(Flatlanders) they would soon be famous and proudly have King Kong Cougar on their wall for time and memorial. Well once this big old tom was treed a good friend of mine who was also a very good hound man and a hard hunter who put his all into each hunt elected to harvest the cat. This he did matter of factly and we proceeded to get him off the mountain. Well as we made it back to the road and got him loaded which was no easy task who should come around the bend but Mr. Outfitter and several Joe Flatlanders riding along. As he pulled up to us he jumped and we exchanged greeting as we knew each other well. He said well one down just killed a really good tom for this one guy and I expect to fill the other one out quick. Well good we said and then he looked back at his truck and two clients had got out to smoke a ciggarette. He then happed to look in the back of my truck and the color drained from his face. Oh my gawd! he said and spun around to head off his clients, but it was too late. As they peeked into the pickup bed they almost fell over. Holy $hit!! Look at that! How big is that thing? Well next thing you know they are taking pictures and measuring the paws an all this stuff and Mr. Outfitter is wringing his hands and shaking his head. I walked back to his truck and I could see why he was a bit anxious. There laying in the bed was a tom lion allright about 115 pounds maybe. The hunter who shot it came over and said that damn guy told me this was as big as any tom lion on the mountain. Heck I didn't know so I blasted it, and then I see this. I consoled a bit and told him he had a resprectable trophy and that few lions every lived long enough to grow to this size. He said well I can sure as hell see why that is when you got outfitters like this guy who almost wanted to pull the trigger of my gun for me so it didn't get away. LOL!
well I was looking at the game and fish website and found out we only have four females left in our unit. And I have heard of one or two more on the way in. 
