New Utah Bear Laws

[Idhoundsman]

Has anybody seen the new proposals on the 2010 Utah bear hunt? You can go to the fish and game website to see the full proposal but the bare bones of it is limiting the number of houndsman allowed to pursue bear on the southern units during the summer pursuit season San Juan,Lasalles,and the Bookcliffs. They would also like to limit the number of hounds that can be ran on one bear to eight, that would include pursuit and kill seasons. Just wondering what you guys think.

[Brindle]

My thoughts are this, if you cant catch a bear with 8 dogs you had better get you some plotts. So the 8 dog limit is ok. But the limit on hunters has me a bit concerned because i enjoy running the books and san juan. I wonder how they will do the permit by draw or first come first serve. Lots of other states already have a dog limit and most of those are 6.

[Catman]

Yes I've heard this as well from The Utah Houndsmen Ass. Also a Biologist with the DWR told me that some of the reasons it has come to this is people had to many dogs running as several buddies would get together and each of them throw a pack in on a race. They also told me that one of the reasons is that they have had a few problem bears in these areas and that they couldn't catch them as the hound doggers told them they were educated? So it sounds like a person best be careful what he/she says when you try to help with problem animals as now they think the animals have been chased to much and are untreeable. I argued that point, but it didn't do any good. I think we as houndsmen need to be very careful if we want to protect what is left. These units are only the beginning....if they do this statewide and a person has to draw a pursuit tag.....it will be very hard to enjoy a pack of hounds that you can only hunt when and if you draw a tag.

[Idhoundsman]

I agree with you Catman that somtimes there are big groups of hunters that all look for tracks together and when the find one they all turn loose a bunch of dogs. I hate to have them start regulating to much because it could be the beginning of the end. If they are going to limit the number of pursuit permits, they might want to start with the non-residents during the spring as well. I hate to be that way but the LaSalles are getting a little over run during the spring. We need to get an idea of what will work as a group or we will be forced to accept thing that we cannot change latter.

[azplott]

This is disturbing. I love the utah pursuit seasons. I have been making a vacation out of it for the last couple of years.

It is a very misguided proposal for several reasons.

According to DWR page, its sounds like noise is the major issues because it bothers the hikers. Are hikers more important than hunters? Hikers and campers cause plenty of problems for all types of hunter from busting a stalk on a nice bull to "saving" what they think are poor lost little hound dogs. Even though there is conflict on both sides I don't hear hunters wanting to restrict the hikers. Is upsetting some people with a little hound music really a valid reason? Whats next? Gunshots are loud too, are they gonna change deer season and limit the size of the gun so hunters don't bother anyone with the gunshot noise?

Trevor

[Ike]

I'll agree with Brindle, if a guy can't catch a bear with eight dogs and by himself then what is that person in the sport for? I once watched five or six truck loads of hounddoggers unload thirty or forty dogs on one bear track in the Book Cliffs. And they asked me to join. I smiled and declined and drove on after the dust cleared. That was six or seven years ago and I thought then that their time was coming. Before I got off the RAC I had one manager ask me about limiting pack size to eight dogs, and I shook my head because of the problems that kind of management will cause......

Say you or I am driving along and the dogs blow up on the box. We can't hear anything right? Is that rig a bear or could those dogs have blown up after hearing a bear tree in the canyon below. Say we cut our dogs loose, unknowingly, and they go into a tree with eight hounds on it. Are we (you or I or the guilty party) in violation? Or does the CO have to prove intent? I stand with DWR on the eight dog pack size, if we can't catch a bear with that many dogs we should cull harder and breed more wisely.

Limited entry is the only solution to excessive use of the resource. I hate LE hunting or pursuit more than any of you, but it's the only way to limit or reduce the problem. It's just sad that our sport had to come to this. As I've said before, people need managed more than wildlife and that's too bad............

ike

[Ike]

They also told me that one of the reasons is that they have had a few problem bears in these areas and that they couldn't catch them as the hound doggers told them they were educated? So it sounds like a person best be careful what he/she says when you try to help with problem animals as now they think the animals have been chased to much and are untreeable.

I had one person with DWR ask me if they should close pursuit season because they thought it was educating the bears and making them harder to catch. His comments were, hounds have always been our ace in the hole for problem bears, and if that's gone (and they won't get into a trap) what then?

I quickly told him that a good pack of veteran hounds, when in shape, will stop about any bear on the planet. He agreed but still wondered if new people in the sport with pups or untrained hounds might make treeing bears harder. And that's the reason that I have spoken out bout gang banging with large packs, if a bear wins one of those battles it will take some real hair pullers next time to stop him. Besides, if we close pursuit season and have to have a tag to run hounds, then a good pack of hounds will be hard to come by before long.

The real problem is baiting, legal and illegal. And baiting also means campers who leave their coolers out. The hounddogger groups should petition the Forest Service to fine people who leave coolers out and unattended. They should also look at being more selective at where a bowhunter can place a legal bait and actively pursuit illegal baiters.

A couple years back I ran down a young boar for DWR out of a Forest Service Campground. When I drove in, the campground host told me that bear had just been seen in campsite 36, so I drove over there. There was a tent, a cooler on the picnic table and another cooler on the ground with a bear in it. I cut the hounds loose, ran that problem, aggressive bear down and a hunter killed it. So what was the problem? the bear? or the camper who left the coolers out?

ike

[ZeluvaRIP69er]

You wanna know my view... Maybe I should post this in the cage...

I grew up in Nucla Colorado (I know, you have never heard of it!) I am about 40 minutes from the Utah border, about an hour from the canal camp in La Sal Utah!

I did not grow up in Nucla! I grew up hunting bear with hounds in La Sal Utah!

The fact that they would try and take the annual La Sal bear hunt away from me strikes me right in the heart!

If I am willing to drop my life in Arizona, Colorado, or Norway, to go to La Sal, spend my birthday up there with family and friends, and hunt bear and live, they should let me! This is not fair to those of us, many I have known my whole life, who mark on a calendar when we drive up there, as a convoy!

Hunting bear was never a hobby to my dad and I... It was a passion and a way of making a living for our family... When you live in Colorado, a state that does not allow bear hunting with hounds, you go to Utah! When you live in Arizona where there is no pursuit and all the Blankity Blanks who close the season in the first weekend ruins it for you, you go to Utah!

My chevy gets 7 miles to the gallon... 3 if you pull our camper... which we always did when we went to Utah. I know every road on the La Sals! My initials are carved in trees, and dated, way back to when I had buck teeth, short hair, and looked like a boy! Today, my hair is long, I look like a chick, my teeth still may be a little on the bucky side, so don't mess with me, for I bite!

Brindle, true to an extent what you said about number of dogs... To my dad and I, the Pursuit season is training and culling season. Dump as many as we can, whatever don't make it, gets a strike... By three strike, they are out! So for those who drive many hours to get to the La Sals, the Blues, the Bookcliffs, or anywhere else, that 8 dog "limit" could hurt a lot of people who do this for a living. But I must admit, it is nice catching a bear with only one dog

The La Sal mountains are way more then a place to me... There were also more to my dad. That's why he made it clear not only to me, but many of his friends, spread my ashes here! Of all the mountains my dad roamed, he chose them, because they have a magic about them that no other mountains possess. All mountains are magical. But I grew up in the La Sals. I watched ol Sky Bird get the end of his jaw bit off by a bear in the La Sals. Cabo caught his first bear as a puppy in the La Sals. My boyfriend saw his first bear race in the La Sals. I watched Deeds, Shuttah, Socki, and Taz chase a bear started in the middle of Dow Canyon, by the metal water tank, over right by our canal camp, over by the pass road, Over La Sal Pass, and into Hells Canyon... Where they stayed for 4 days, finally coming out to the ranch house there at the mouth of Hells canyon... Deeds had a broken exposed toe when we dumped him... He walked to the house, and when I saw him, I scooped the evil booger up and carried him to the truck. My dad told me that day, that my Shuttah female was gonna make a dog!

I spent every birthday in the La Sals. I plan on getting married in the La Sals. Someday, I would love to live there.

I'm sorry... I really can't type anymore...

[Ike]

I know how you feel Nikki about taking ownership of a place and sport, as I was a bowhunter years ago and hunted the Roadless area in the Book Cliffs. Wildlife managers and the public closed down that unit to over the counter hunting in the early 90s and ran me out of the sport, and I've never hunted elk or deer on that unit since that day. Back then, I felt the same way about my bowhunting and the Books that you feel about the La Sal's. But believe me time passes and so do laws, and most of us just have to adapt and live with those changes for the rest of time.........

ike

[LCK]

Well, I think we brought it on ourselves. It was bound to happen. I have had this discussion with a good many houndsmen over the last few years. I think there does need to be some control. The bookcliffs for instance have turned into a joke when it comes to bear hunting. The state sat back and watched and sure eough we pulled out our pistols out and shot ourselves in the foot on this one. No one to blame but ourselves.

[Ike]

Ain't that the truth? I haven't had hounds in the Book Cliffs since the state opened the spring bear hunt back up. I didn't need to go see the problem, cause I already knew with twenty-five kill tags and pursuit season it would be a joke. Before that time, I always ran in the Book Cliffs until the dog boxes showed up then packed up and left. A long time friend always told me if you find something in wildlife or hunting you like then get all of it you can stand (don't put it off) cause somebody will come take it away from you..........

ike

[azplott]

So are we all going to hang our heads low and take it without so much as a wimper?


How did the hounddoggers bring this on themselves?

[Ike]

So are we all going to hang our heads low and take it without so much as a wimper?

You or anybody else can get on DWR's webpage and see when and where all five RAC Meetings are and attend; you can also submit written comments to those RACs and I'm sure the information about where to send those comments are on their website as well. You or interested parties can also attend the Wildlife Board Hearing that follows and voice your complaints, but after sitting on the RAC as a Sportsman's Represtative for seven years I learned it takes alot of doing to over ride DWR recommendations to the Board. I fought the good fight and lived through those battles for ten or fifteen years, and I promised myself I was done with that stuff when I walked away some years back. I will be at the bear meeting, and I will voice concerns, but I realize my voice doesn't carry the weight it once did as a single person party.......

ike

[Ike]

How did the hounddoggers bring this on themselves?

I take little credit for either problem as I generally hunt alone, do not mix dogs, only hunt six or seven hounds, and have not had hounds on any of those three units for years. So I fail to see how "we" applies to me......but LCK was correct in that the people involved are to blame, and those people know who they are.

ike

[ZeluvaRIP69er]

So are we all going to hang our heads low and take it without so much as a wimper?

You or anybody else can get on DWR's webpage and see when and where all five RAC Meetings are and attend; you can also submit written comments to those RACs and I'm sure the information about where to send those comments are on their website as well. You or interested parties can also attend the Wildlife Board Hearing that follows and voice your complaints, but after sitting on the RAC as a Sportsman's Represtative for seven years I learned it takes alot of doing to over ride DWR recommendations to the Board. I fought the good fight and lived through those battles for ten or fifteen years, and I promised myself I was done with that stuff when I walked away some years back. I will be at the bear meeting, and I will voice concerns, but I realize my voice doesn't carry the weight it once did as a single person party.......

ike

Ike is right in a way... There are only so many hunters, there are more antis and people who like to B*tch about every little thing they can. If people would just keep their nose on their side of their fence, we would be here. Everyone takes and takes and takes, but no one wants to give.

I am selling out... Dogs, equipment, the works. I am just a paying client willing to ride around and see other peoples dogs in action and have someone else catch me a bear for once! I've had 18 years experience and learned from one of the best. Someday, if hounds are even a legal breed to own, I will get back into it. If not, I will support it as someone who loves hounds of all kinds with everything I can.