New Utah Bear Laws

[HoundDawg]

I am personally opposed to losing anything or any limit put on us. I don't have 8 dogs to run but I am totally against any limit placed on how many dogs you can run.

It's not about how many dogs it takes to catch a bear, so that makes it OK. It's about losing ANYTHING. You shouldn't be anymore OK with that than if they said, "You can only take 4 bullets with you elk hunting. If it takes more bullets than that you don't deserve an elk." Or them saying, "We aren't going to outlaw guns, but you can only own two. Decide which two you want to keep and we'll take the rest."

I'm not OK with losing anything, any right, any privilege, I'm not OK with them saying they are taking one day off the end of the November bear season. I don't care if they are all in dens asleep, I still don't want to lose that last day.

Setting any kind of limit on us, like a dog limit, is just another step towards losing it all and I'm not OK with it. I'll never be OK with losing anything, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem at the time.

I realize we probably won't win and it's an uphill battle but I'll never be OK with anything like that placed on us. Dog limit, draw pursuit tags, I'm opposed to all of it, even if we lose a half inch on a boundary unit. I could care less how many dogs it takes to catch a bear or if a guy wants to run alone or gang bang. Viewing it that way is short sighted.

We should be opposed to losing ANYTHING we once had, I don't how small it seems. I'm probably in the minority but I'll never be OK with anything like that, even losing 20 minutes off our bear season.

[ZeluvaRIP69er]

I am personally opposed to losing anything or any limit put on us. I don't have 8 dogs to run but I am totally against any limit placed on how many dogs you can run.

It's not about how many dogs it takes to catch a bear, so that makes it OK. It's about losing ANYTHING. You shouldn't be anymore OK with that than if they said, "You can only take 4 bullets with you elk hunting. If it takes more bullets than that you don't deserve an elk." Or them saying, "We aren't going to outlaw guns, but you can only own two. Decide which two you want to keep and we'll take the rest."

I'm not OK with losing anything, any right, any privilege, I'm not OK with them saying they are taking one day off the end of the November bear season. I don't care if they are all in dens asleep, I still don't want to lose that last day.

Setting any kind of limit on us, like a dog limit, is just another step towards losing it all and I'm not OK with it. I'll never be OK with losing anything, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem at the time.

I realize we probably won't win and it's an uphill battle but I'll never be OK with anything like that placed on us. Dog limit, draw pursuit tags, I'm opposed to all of it, even if we lose a half inch on a boundary unit. I could care less how many dogs it takes to catch a bear or if a guy wants to run alone or gang bang. Viewing it that way is short sighted.

We should be opposed to losing ANYTHING we once had, I don't how small it seems. I'm probably in the minority but I'll never be OK with anything like that, even losing 20 minutes off our bear season.

Amen Dawg!

[mulemanbl]

I totally agree. ANYTHING they take away from us is one step closer to taking it all away. BUT its our own fault. Putting 20 dogs on a bear is no different than the idiot shooting 20 times at a elk. If you need that many dogs or carriages you need to take a look at your pack and or go back to the shooting range...... Lets face it, of all those dogs in these races only about 4 or 5 of them are the ones getting the job done. the rest are just following. BUT it does suck this is proposed on us

[Bigbear]

I agree with dawg and once we lose any part we never get it back and as far as some saying you dont need more than 8 dogs on a bear well for the most part maybe id say yes but given the right day and attitude of the bear sometimes it takes a few more and i like to hunt with friends and family and more often than most while im out hunting any body is welcome to turn with me and i think of everyone that ive met and hunted with is considered family and the dow is taking my greatest love of life away by limiting me on how many dogs i can turn. This is where i train my young dogs and you have to keep training because as soon as you get a dog doing all mthe right things and catching everything you turn em on there all of a sudden 8-10 years old and you better have some youger stuff coming up. And as far as having to draw for a pursuit tag or first come first serve is a bunch of bull, ill be at the RAC meeting here in Vernal at 6:30 p.m. Dec. 10 UBATC building 450 North 2000 West to show my support for a sport i live for and would be happy going out of this world behind my dogs on a mean old bear. Some think your just 1 person and dont have a say I think if we all show up as 100 of us its alot better than 1 lonely person giving there opiunion. Just maybe they will see we are concerned and will not go down without some sort of say just my thoughts THANK YOU DEWAIN BOREN

[Ike]

Well it'll be fun to see whether the houndsmen turn out in force and whether they are persuasive or not. Like I said, I don't and haven't packed hounds to the Book Cliffs since DWR opened it to spring harvest nearly half a dozen years ago. And the primary reason for that is the gang banging. I don't want my hounds under the tree with twenty or thirty other dogs--never did and never do. Matter fact, I usually turn around and go the other way when I see a bunch of dog boxes in the field. It's ashamed the state has to pass laws mandating hound numbers, but it appears many of us would like no limit.

I'll give everybody my take on the RACs.....In my opinion, they were set up to divert the hostile, and sometimes angry public away from DWR and the Wildlife Board--kind of a pissing post for unhappy hunters I'd say. That's what the RAC is there for, to listen to the public and provide input to DWR. The Wildlife Board on the other hand is there to support and pass laws for DWR so they can manage wildlife--they only answer to the Governor. Without the Wildlife Board's support, DWR would not be able to achieve the task of managing wildlife.

The Wildlife Board alone has the power to make those laws, and their job is to listen to DWR and assist them in doing their job. The best way to have an impact on that system is to work through our biologists and managers at a local level before a situation gets to where it is today. In the end, people are human and it only takes one or two votes to change the outcome, so let them know how you feel and maybe you'll sway the vote you need.

Ike

[Brindle]

The other thing about the RAC meeting, are yeah it doesnt hurt to go. But the people that go are for the most part not the ones causing the problems. Because if someone is willing to stand up for our rights they sure as hell arent going to go do the stupid stuff they are fighting against. "generally speaking" From what i have seen it is mostly young kids that go to ksl.com and get some free dogs off there. Then go and dump every last one of them on the first bear track they see. Honest to god i have seen as many as 40 dogs on 1 bear out on the book cliffs. So yes we need to fight against it. But mostly we need to educate the idiots that just dont give a damn about running. Because all they have to do is give their dogs away and they are out nothing. Because they dont buy any equipment either "if they dont make the tree oh hell just leave 'em". Its pretty simple USE COMMON SENSE. And yes i will be at the RAC meeting.

[azplott]

So whats the best way an out of state guy can help? Emails to everbody on a RAC? Emails to any one I can find in the DWR? Phone calls to the same people?

[Ike]

Honest to god i have seen as many as 40 dogs on 1 bear out on the book cliffs. So yes we need to fight against it.

Also know that people who work for DWR read these boards, and when they see commens like forty dogs on a single bear track it just re-enforces to them that more regulations are needed.

So whats the best way an out of state guy can help? Emails to everbody on a RAC? Emails to any one I can find in the DWR? Phone calls to the same people?

Yes, emails or letters to the RAC and then the Wildlife Board is probably about all a person can do from long range. Be respectful, state clearly what you support and get right to the point and you will make the most lasting impact. As for speaking to DWR, well, only if you have input at the higher levels will you have any impact at this stage of the game. If you're a member of Sportmens' for Fish and Wildlife email or telephone Don Peay and plead your case, but DWR has already spoken on these issues, the managers of each region, and you aren't going to get them to with draw their request to the Board for change. Enough input from enough different groups will, however, turn the heads of some of those RAC members........

Best of luck,
ike

[TUCO]

You ever see an English foxhunt? They run 40 or more hounds just to chase a 15 pound fox. Its all about the chase. not that id want to try an drag 40 dogs off a tree in some hellhole bears usually end up in, but if i had 40. i wouldnt want to leave most of them home either....It might only take one dog to catch a bear, but the other 39 shouldnt have to miss out on all the fun of the chase...and the roar from a bunch of hounds sounds alot cooler then from one lone dog.

[bigal]

i agree with almost every body just like bigbear i go to be with "famliy" i get to see most of them for the bear hunt then they all go back home and wait until next year

[Ike]

Intersting point about going to be with family. When some of the sportsmen groups and DWR closed the Book Cliffs deer hunt from over the counter to limited entry I figure the days of the family hunting outings was a thing of the past but was wrong. I never once imagined that a whole family would go watch and support a single family member in killing a two foot buck deer. Maybe that's where we are headed on those good bear units, one person running his hounds and the family and friends going along to watch......

ike

[Bigbear]

The LE hunts in the book cliffs on deer and elk are really no different than us houndsman 1 person has a kill tag and you will see quite a few people ( FAMILY) along hunting and helping them kill their buck or bull and i dont mean them pulling the trigger but just going along. I know houndhunting has sure made me a better person and kept me out of trouble just as my kids really enjoy this sport HELL i dont even own any of these dogs in my back yard My kids claim them all i just get to feed them and they let me go hunting with them its a great sport and i just dont want to see any changes thats all Ive got 10 points for bear this year when i put in and i was really hoping to draw this year but it just wont be the same without friends and family being able to turn there dogs in with me. DEWAIN

[Ike]

I've never had a Book Cliffs Bear tag and most likely never will, although I did put in for a number of years on two different occasions. I suppose I quit applying for that tag after talking to a fellow hounddogger. He told me, "we have nearly thirty people in for the Book Cliff's draw how many people do you have putting in?" Well, I switched my selection to another unit and never looked back. And that's the problem with limited entry anything, the state takes control and the individual does without.........

ike

[ub]

Ike do you think we can get the division to answer this question since they are reading?

Why do the guides and outfitters need an exemption to this?

Recommend a pursuit permit not be required for a licensed guide or outfitter on public land or individual on private land with written landowner permission when compensated and accompanied by a client

[Ike]

Hello ub, so how have you been? I can't speak for the Division but I'm sure that you're not gonna get an answer from them on here. However, if you go to the RAC Meeting and ask the question during the questions period then they will give you some kind of answer. Don't ask me to justify it cause I don't work for them, nor do I attend their management meetings....

Good luck,
ike