Our Cougar hunts.......UPDATE...............................

[catdog360]

Stevens Pend Or. is closed the first weekend, Chelan one female killed no toms, Klickitat one female killed no toms, Okanogan still open, Ferry Okanogan not open yet.



Chelan 1 female 4 total
Okanogan 3 females 7 total
Okan-Ferry 7 females 13 total
Stevens PendO. --closed--
Klickitat 1 female 2 total.


Good job guys on keeping these open......................................

[dtf]

People just don't get the big picture here!! Way to just shoot all of us in the foot. People should really be proud of themselves for killing the females, what a bunch of dumb asses!!!!!!!! This will more than likely set in stone that our future for longtails will be over in this state. Thanks to you, our children will never know what it was like on yet another form of big game with the dogs. This makes me sick, way to go.

[ryan goodwin]

ya the stevens pond unit there was only 2 feamales wene it opened and it was closed sun, My buddie got drawn for there sucks bad. It sucks that wene the gamedepartment has a prob they call a hound hunter then they kill the cat and that goes toawards the quota. and same wene the deer and elk hunters wack one same thing, this is wrong and bs. i have a freind that got drawn for ferry and hopefully we can get him a tom it will be his first cat and he allready knows we aint killing any feamales and he is ok with that, he just wants a nice tom for his first cat then he dont care we can just go take pic and i allso think hes ok if he dont get a big tom and just gets to here the dogs and see a cat in the tree. More of us need to be like that our we wont have any hunting. happy hunting and merry xmas to all

[Machias]

The way they have it set up it's a race. I have pleaded and begged on this forum and any other forum for guys NOT to shoot small males and any females. It's so easy to tell. How many toms were still available when the two females were taken this weekend?

[catdog360]

We can't say don't kill the small toms. If the program is to work the way it's supposed to the average cat killed would be a 120 lb. tom. Remember guys it's not a trophy hunt and it's not a sport hunt. It's a hunt set up through legislation to target the problem cats and remove them for the safety of the public. I'm not saying if you tree a 190 tom not to kill him by all means harvest him. But just remember we are a resource and a tool that the DFW can't live without, but if we screw it up the paid U.S. government hunter/trapper will do our job for us.

[ryan goodwin]

well said catdog. and im not sure how many toms were left regardless some guys need to learn to sex them it is not that hard some times it is but come on make the wright deccision. there is alot of guys out there that dont care about all the hound men just them selves. but they are shooting them selves in the foot to

[Machias]

We can't say don't kill the small toms. If the program is to work the way it's supposed to the average cat killed would be a 120 lb. tom. Remember guys it's not a trophy hunt and it's not a sport hunt. It's a hunt set up through legislation to target the problem cats and remove them for the safety of the public. I'm not saying if you tree a 190 tom not to kill him by all means harvest him. But just remember we are a resource and a tool that the DFW can't live without, but if we screw it up the paid U.S. government hunter/trapper will do our job for us.

I could be wrong about this and if so please correct me, but the permit with hounds is NOT public safety hunts, those are seperate. The two were NEVER linked before. The permit with hounds is a SPORT hunt (study) to see the effects of hounds running cats. At least that was the way it was presented four or five years ago when it was first introduced. The permit hunt is NOTHING about removing problem cats. We should not IMO be killing sub-adults.

[catdog360]

OK I will correct you. The pilot hunts are NOT a sport hunt. It is study that is used in the counties that recieve X amount of complaints and ask to be involved in the program. It is absolutly a public safety hunt. The study is trying to determine if the use of hounds will really limit the amount of human/cat conflict. As we know the two major cat/human conflicts this summer were in these areas. One reason it doesn't look good right now. To keep these hunts in the 6 counties going we will have to go to legislature and ask them to permantly make houndsman a tool/resource for the DFW. The DFW wants to keep us, but we have to prove to leg. that we are needed and we are the only resource the DFW has to control the cats and keep conflict down to a min. The do not call the public safety hunts because these counties have asked to be involved in the study. Were as the other counties with high cat complaints have not asked to be involved. But to make these 6 counties legal for us to run our hounds the legislature has to call them a public safety issue.

[Machias]

"The study is trying to determine if the use of hounds will really limit the amount of human/cat conflict. As we know the two major cat/human conflicts this summer were in these areas."

Probably symantics but one has been called a Public Safety hunt and one is a Study. With the study NO guidiance was issued saying this is not a sport hunt. If that was the case they'd have you kill the first thing you treed, IMO. The "Study" is worthless though if they count all females harvested by every which way no matter what. How in the heck can you "study" the impact when the hound harvest last 2 days. If they REALLY wanted to study it they could put out ONLY toms to be harvested, again this is just my not so humble opinion.

[Machias]

I just went through the regs again, including the seperate pamplet for the hound hunts. No where does it say these hunts are related to public safety removals. In fact just the opposite. From the regs:

Hunting with Dogs:
The use of hounds to hunt cougar is prohibited
statewide except during public safety cougar
removals or commission authorized hunts.

Finally, hunts in Chelan, Okanogan, Okanogan-Ferry,
Stevens-Pend Oreille, and Klickitat zones have late season cougar
hound hunts. In these zones the Department is emphasizing hound hunting to
evaluate the pros and cons of using dogs to manage cougar.

These hunts are not about public safety removals, those are seperate. This is about the pros and cons of using dogs to manage lions. Key word is MANAGE. One key to managing lions is selective harvest.

[George Streepy]

It does not matter that the two major problems were in the the hunt area. We are not responsible for the attacks. Our goal is to reduce the number of complaints in the study area, and we have. All we can do is what we think is right and hope it works out. A diverse harvesting does not hurt at all. If you feel like a female is worth harvesting go ahead. I prefer to not screw over every other houndsmen in the woods. There is no way I would harvest one of the last females and threaten to close the hunt for everyone else. I have decided to trophy hunt because I do not have a use for a 90 lbs cat. We treed a couple of cats this weekend. My buddy harvested a young tom. I see nothing wrong with that. I will be spending the remainder of the hunt chasing cats, whether we harvest or not we will be putting pressure on the cats. Hopefully keeping them away from the public and reducing the amount of complaints. As long as the complaints are lower we have succeeded. With any luck my dad (the other permitee) will be able to get under a tree with a large tom in it before the quota has closed.

[catdog360]

Go to your google toolbar and type in WACs 232-12-243 and 232-28-285. It will explain everything. 243 is the first bill wrote to allow the removal of cougars for the sake of the safety of the public. 285 is an ammendment that allows the use of hounds in the whole county is and only if all sircumstances are met under the rules of 243. Which is the purpose for the safety of the public...................................

[ryan goodwin]

call it what you want any way you look at it we are getting screwed and have been for years. its all a joke it sucks

[hounddawger]

IMO they should issue tom only tags in those areas. If someone harvest a female fine them just like they would do if you shot a doe or a cow. This would allow the total number of cats to be harvested and the study if you call it that would work. I think alot of the cats already harvested are probably ones that someone who doesn't own hounds and a hound hunter took them hunting for a fee and doesn't care about anything but getting paid for killing any cat. I hope I'm successful in harvesting a nice tom in the Klickitat area before the quota is meet. If not I'll just be happy to be in the woods taking pictures of the ones I do tree. Goodluck fellas.

[Machias]

catdog360, I'm not trying to be a jerk or argue with you. That was originally what set these wheels in motion, your 100% right, however the current seasons of permit with hounds is solely about the pros and cons of managing lions with the aid of hounds. Is the public safety part of it, sure is, but this is a sport hunt, pure and simple and they are studying the effects of that hunt on managing lions. That is why NO guidance is given to new folks who draw permits. Also if it was only about public safety why would they try for maximum participation, allowing everyone, even those without dogs to now apply for permits. The driving force which started us down this path was in fact public safety, that is no longer the focus of the study, the focus of the study is can sport hunting with dogs manage lions for the WDFW.

Merry Christmas my friend!!