terriers for cats?

[nmplott]

So this weekend, trailed 4 bobs and only caught one. The other three each holed up and could not get them out. So my question is will a patterdale terrier pull a cat out of a whole like they do for badgers or any other terrier that will pull badgers out? I am interested in getting a dog that can do both badgers and cats.

[BuckNAze]

If the damn little things can pull badgers out they will have no problem pulling a bobcat out! You just to teach them to trail bobcats, unless you just want to bring them in with you to pull them out and have the hounds do the work to get the cat to hold up like that.

[david]

I have kind of a firm opinion on the subject. It is not the only way, and might not even be the best way, but it is my way.

I have tried the terrier thing. I even have more notches on my gun because of terrier work. But they are notches that I now wish were not there. It is not worth the tiime and the effort and it does not feel very good. These bobcats are often returning to where they were born. It is home, and it is home plate both. The runner is safe. Every time I have taken a cat out of his home, I feel like a sore looser, well, really, I just feel like a looser.

I would much rather leash my dogs, tell them good job, and go find another one, just as you did.

I cant tell you not to try it. I did. But about the second time you have to dig your terrier out of frozen ground, boulders, and logs and waste more than half a day doing it, you will probably come to a similar conclusion as the one I came to.

Good bobcat homes can be hard to find in some areas. Damaging or destroying the very places where our litters are safely raised is shooting ourselves in the foot.

Good job, by the way. Your dogs put an end to four bobcat tracks in one day. You are to be commended.

[nmplott]

David,
I like the perspective you placed on this subject.
Stephen

[BuckNAze]

Now what you could do and woudl work out well is to let your hounds do the work and walk your terrier in. Get a long leash or rope and then you can use that to pull him back out if he wont come back out. That way you wouldnt have to dig him out unless the hole collapses. Dont know if he would be dragging the bobcat out with him or not or whether you would get the cat but it would be hard to do. But at least with a rope or leash you can drag him back out so you can get your dog back.

[rooster]

or just keep a flare in your truck, it doesnt eat or bark or poop. if you absoluotly just have to have him.

[twist]

David I like your train of thought! I just holed one up and my thoughts were just as you said dogs did thier jobs and the old cat is still smilin, still a great day of hunting. I would be cautious about the lead or rope on a dog in a hole things could get wound up real easy around dog or rocks, roots and then you have bigger troubles. jmo later, Andy

[Budd Denny]

If my dogs put a cat in the hole they accomplished what I expect of em, completed race. I have patterdales and do plan on doing it once so I can say I seen my terriers draw a cat out of a brush pile, beaver den, ect. Only once though, our cats are only selling at tops of $60, worth more alive then dead to me!!!

[walkersrule]

those little round smoke bombs that you get on the 4th of july work great for smoking them out of holes.

i would rather see one in a tree though!!!!

jimmy

[david]

I would be cautious about the lead or rope on a dog in a hole things could get wound up real easy around dog or rocks, roots and then you have bigger troubles. jmo later, Andy

You are exactly right Andy. I dont even like them to have a collar on, because I have had them string a branch through the collar and they aint coming out, you gotta make the hole big enough to go in.

or just keep a flare in your truck, it doesnt eat or bark or poop. if you absoluotly just have to have him.

Are these things you guys have tried and they work? I know someone who lit a brush pile to "smoke em out". Well he had a little terrier in there named Annie. I raised and trained the dog and she was a gem. He Smoked em all right. Just like smoked salmon or smoked beef jerky. It was a waste of a good track laying bobcat and a great little Jagd with a heart as big as the whole world. He never saw either one again.

I have heard of bobcats bolting because of smoke or dogs in with them, but I have never seen it. There was a story link just posted that said one did, but there is a big chunk of that story that is missing, and I would like to know more about it. Grey Fox will bolt quickly. Bobcats that I have experienced in a deep secure refuge will hold to the death.

If my dogs put a cat in the hole they accomplished what I expect of em, completed race. I have patterdales and do plan on doing it once so I can say I seen my terriers draw a cat out of a brush pile, beaver den, ect. Only once though, our cats are only selling at tops of $60, worth more alive then dead to me!!!

Excelent post Budd, to my taste. Terriers are a trip. They really are some of my favorite dogs just because they remind me of the way Dan Edwards used to play football and they way he used to perform as a marine, which is the same way he hunts.
Those dogs have more heart and desire than any dog I know of. It is the same thing our favorite Pro Football player has and gets paid so much for. We love it. It is amazing and we are willing to pay him millions of dollars just so we can watch him lay everything down every play every game. It is why I love terriers, and we can watch them for something less than a million dollars.

If you have terriers, by all means, let them show you what they think they can do on every game animal and varmit alive, including elephant. If you want a mount of everything they are willing to fight, you better have a pretty massive showroom.

But then, after that is over. I think you will have to decide if you want to be a devoted terrierist or a devoted houndman who hunts bobcats. Because unless you hunt full time, have no family, and do not have to work a job, I dont think you will have time for both.

Terrierists keep a whole truck full of extraction gear. They keep wood for repairing buildings that they have to tear apart to get their game and their dogs out. It is a VERY TIME CONSUMING endeavor. And more importantly: here is what it does for your hounds: NOTHING. Let me say that a little louder: NOTHING .

Actually, that is not true. It does less than nothing. It keeps your hounds sitting shivering for hours wondering what the heck you are doing because Three hours ago, they forgot why it was you tied them to a tree to let them freeze to death. All the while they are thinking "hey boss, can we go do some bobcat hunting please. I could become a better dog with some more practice doing what I was bred to do, which does not include sitting waiting while you destroy a bobcat nursury."

Here is the link to the story that was posted. It is a great story with great pictures and I celebrate with the guy that just got his first bobcat. But in my book, you and I need to mature beyond that first bobcat however you can get it. Hope fully, I am not the only one who looked at those pictures and felt a deep sense of sadness at seeing that bobcat nursury destroyed.

Please do not post anything on either of those threads about that. It is a great day, someone got their first bobcat and felt the same thing we felt when we got our first. I dont want to rain on that parade. But this is a place where people advance their skills and knowledge to a high level of bobcat hunting. A high level of bobcat hunting includes farming your cats. There is no farmer that intentionally damages or destroys the safe places where his animals have succesfully raised their young. These are the places these bobcats return to.

I do not know all the details, but knowing what I know, this is how my mind fills in the blanks:That bobcat had a big meal and then layed down for a long winters nap. Those dogs probably cold trailed that cat right to the log where he was sleeping. A cat with a full stomach and stiff, does not usually give much of a race, and the rest is spelled out in the story. Again, I have nothing against this man getting his first bobcat. It is wonderful... (OK, had to edit that for being dishonest: It just makes me really angry that they tore that log appart. This is Western Oregon. They had all day. They could not go get another bobcat with dogs like that? It is an insult to the mans dogs. .... Sorry, tried to hold it, but lost myself.) I am hoping young bobcat hunters who are making a lifestyle of this will learn to think a little more deeply about things. http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=283907

[Dads dogboy]

To Mr. Budd & David,

AMEN!

Glad fellow got his first Cat, still leaving the Cat to run again is a nice option to have!

Happy New Year to All!

CJC

[nmplott]

I only harvest about 10percent of what the dogs catch, I really enjoy the race and the dogs when they are doing what they have been bred to do. Usually I only harvest when training pups or if is a huge tom, I was just wondering about this and taht is why I posted. One other question I have is will that cat only bail in select whole or is it just at the first oppurtinity?

[david]

. One other question I have is will that cat only bail in select whole or is it just at the first oppurtinity?

nmplott, I owe you an appology, because you started this thread and I kind of took it in a different direction. I did not mean at all to criticize you. Dude, I have never had a day where I ended four bobcat tracks. You are my idol!

It is just you got me thinking about some things and that can be unfortunate for everone, ha ha.

As far as your question, it depends on the type area you are in, I think. Some areas have endless supplys of rock piles etc. Other areas have almost no place for a cat to take refuge and if not for dry beaver houses and loggers slash piles, there probably would not be very many bobcats because they would have no place to safely raise their young.

I use the places a bobcat takes refuge in as a factor in judging how well my dogs did. If a cat is sitting up a sappling that is swaying back and forth in the breeze, I know he did not have much time to choose a nice tree. If he is in a shallow depression in the rocks facing dogs, I again know he did not have much time to choose a place. Likewise, if he makes it to a huge tree and the dogs have trouble locating him, I know they did not see him climb, and he had plenty of time to find a tree and climb it out of sight of the dogs. If he is in a deep hole, hollow log, huge slag pile or other place that could easily be chosen as a nursury by a female bobcat, I think he had all the time in the world for a leasurely stroll back to the old home place. If that happens too much, I start thinking about trying to find dogs that can catch him before he gets so much time to go home.

[nmplott]

So it was over a three day period that I trailed these cats. It is on our private ranch and only 6 people who hunt have access and only two of us have hounds, myself and my brother (which are basically my dogs). So these guys are pretty well protected unlike the coyotes which are hunted ruthlessly. (I do this to keep the cattle safe primarily as it has been our way of life for generations but it also eliminates a lot of competition for bobcats). We have mostly juniper and a few pines but they do not grow much bigger than typical Christmas trees so rocks and holes is where I lose a lot of these guys.

[Hoff's BigGameHounds]

i have a terrior that will out hunt and track alot of good hounds, riggs and everything!
I couldnt imagine not having one!!!