What the hell New Mexico?!?!

[Arroyo]

I moved to the Four Corners area this summer ready to hunt lion as much as I could. I work a normal job and hunt weekends, as much as I can. I have hunted lion in NE New Mexico on private ranches guiding and on an Indian Reservation. I have also hunted a lot in Utah for lion as well. I moved here from Oklahoma where we ran bobcat year round. The harvest season was like any other western state but we were allowed to run our dogs year round for training, which we did. Let me tell you, a guy can really make a dog when he can run game year round and the adversary is plentiful. The whole time I hunted in Oklahoma for four years while going to school was filled with many nights with bobcats in a tree or in a hole. Several cats can be caught in a night due to the high density and good conditions. The whole time I was in Oklahoma, all I could think about was moving out to "God's Country" and running lion.

Well, here I am. We have found some lion this season but not as many as one would expect. My buddy who I hunt with says that this area has been devoid of lion for many years. The country I hunt is filled with a plethora of big game feed species: deer and elk. With as many deer and elk as one sees, you would think the lion would be right around the corner. Not so.

I looked on the NMG&F website tonight and saw that the area I hunt is close to getting shut down due to the female sub-quota. 3 males have been killed and 4 females have been killed. I can only imagine the trophy quality of these kitties. I was fortunate to see one young tom that was killed that would be fortunate to tip 75 pounds on a certified scale. This thing still had a milk mustache! El gato de bigote leche! What in the world! The hunter had paid a certain amount of money to one of the outfitters in the area and went out and whacked a lion. He was happy. He got his little, bitty baby to hang up in the trophy room. Good for him.

But what about the sport? What about running your dogs with good company, enjoying the outdoors and catching game? I am not against killing lions, but for God's sake, what are we doing? We have 3 females left and our area will be shut down. The way this has unfolded so far this year, I bet that it will not take that much longer. I could give less about killing a lion. I need lions to run to make dogs and I need the season to be open to train dogs and do what I enjoy.

Three of the lion zones are already shut down in New Mexico. One of the larger zones was closed with 9 females killed and 5 males killed.

Please, leave the females alone so we all can make dogs and enjoy a little bit more of the hunting season. All of us will benefit. I am sure people are going to get pissed off for my post but I had to share my thoughts.

One of the other posts was, "What is the best state to be a hound hunter in?". When I was living in Oklahoma I would have thought one of the great western states such as New Mexico. I miss the year long bobcat training season and the plentiful game of the Sooner State. I also don't want to even mention what is happening with the out of state Pursuit Season in Utah!

Help our sport and do the right thing out there.

[waylon]

Arroyo you can always come back, I got plenty of cats its good dogs i'm short of. If ya ever come this way holler I can put you on plenty of cats even a lion if any of the ranchers make a complaint about one, and i will even leave my opossum dogs @ home

[Ike]

Welcome to the world of lion hunting. A good buddy of mine always use to say the number of Friday snow storms was what determined the number of lions taken where he hunted. And there is truth in that, with snow sleds, more access roads and modern tracking equipment, coupled with harvest objective, the idea that everybody can find and kill a big tom lion just isn't so. Bottom line is over night snow storms produce dead cats....end of story. And we can't control other people, never could and never will.

Utah just passed a lion management plan that recommends that lio hunters kill tom lions. Bottom line if fewer females are killed then more lion tags will be issued on the harvest units; too many females will result in fewer tags as the years pass. This is another chance for hunters to pull back and not kill females and have more hunting opportunity rather than less, but I doubt anybody will listen. In the end all we can do is control our own blood lust and hope some of the others do as well..........

ike

[Arroyo]

Thanks Waylon. I am sorry that we didn't meet up when I was out there in Green Country. We hunted a lot around Bartlesville and out west past Cleveland and Hominy. I only met 2 other cat hunters out there and they were both good guys and enjoyed hunting with them. Where do you hunt? I almost miss those grease rats in this country! They can still at least climb a tree and the dogs can at least get out of the box and put a good crunch on them!

[waylon]

I live just south of Hominy ben here all 31 years of my life except for a year we lived in Mich, You probably met Marion Graham,Johnny files,Wayne Ricketts (deceased now) or Wayne roberts .Those guys @ least there the main guys around. I hunt near my house pretty much I walk or take my 4wheeler, There is the Duncan ranch that borders my land to the west and every thing else is restricted Osage land and I am in good with all the land owners but every now and then i'll get a wild hair and go run the river but the hog hunters that come out of Tulsa have all the home owners were they will shoot your dogs and ask questions later. I have hunted just about every acre with Osage & Pawnee county though we got lots of cats you just gotta get off the road cause most of the guys road there dogs and the cats have that figured out

[Mike Leonard]

You may wish to check the law a little closer they do not have to kill that total of 7 in those units to close it. If it gets to close to that limit they know the 5 day grace period will allow more females to be whacked so they can close it before this. I beleive it is within 10%. So in reality 2 more females and those two unit will be closed( And they should be).

The guys that continue to kill lions in these units after it is closed and tag them in another unit will have a shadow following them. It may just be a Skinwalker up on that ridge and then again it may have a video camera with a long distance zoom on it. All Skinwalkers have those you know. LOL!


Ike you are so right about the friday snowstorms. That use to be the problem here and may still be to some extent, but there is also an element in this area of guys that just won't work for a living. Many are too lazy for regular jobs, some have substance issues which won't alow them to work for many companies and others feel they are too good to work.) Don't give me the economy line because they are all able bodied and driving nice trucks.) Yes funny but true but I heard one say. ($hit man all the dumbies work in the cold winter I play. I can find enough of these faggots around with some cash that will pay me to gas up my truck and buy the beer just to drive them around and kill a kitty cat.) Not making that one up either......

[Yard Dog]

One thing to take into acount about the "Weekenders" is that these guys are at least out working to support themselves and their familys during the week. I for one respect a guy that loves to run his hounds and can only do it on the weekends more than a guy who can hunt day in and day out but kills everything he catches because its a paycheck for him.

Not starting a pissin match, just thinking out loud.

[Mike Leonard]

No problem Yard Dog I agree I support them as well. The sport hunters and hound lovers will not be the ones killing all the females and sub. They know they can't continue to enjoy their sport, train their dogs and watch them work.


DEAD LIONS DON'T MAKE TRACKS

[Ike]

I wasn't hammering on weekend hunters Yard Dog, just pointing out that more people are out and therefore more opportunity to kill. Personally, I've never understood how a man could lay around or hunt if he is able to work and there is a job for him to chase. I've worked since I was in the fifth grade at something, and have done things in life you'd have to horse whip others into. Family and job comes first with old ike, and the hounds and hunting somewhere after that............

keep'em treed,
ike

[Yard Dog]

Understand and could not agree with you guys more...

[bob baldwin jr]

Ike: Good post. Now that I am retired ,have the time, and the money . The hunting does come after the Family , Hounds and other life neccessities are taken care of .

[Clarka57]

I am glad to hear some of this kind of talk. I try my absolute best to get my dogs out as much as possible. By possible I mean afford, without going too much in debt. My habit costs a fortune, their is no end to gas money or time spent not working. I have heard the weekend worrier bit forever, but how can you hunt full time without being retired or somewhat self employed, hunt as a guide, or rich for some reason. In my situation, and we all know I am not the only one, we work for a living, we don't live in fancy houses, don't have car payments because that is a waste of money that is better spent driving a piece of crap that will get you into an area to hunt, but you have to spend the time to fix it yourself and that is life. Ike I respect you, and like you started working for money at an early age, I have you beat by a few years (but I don't want a damn bit of sympathy or lip for that) that is the way I was raised and that is how it is. I know how life is, I went to school for too long, got a few degrees, and I am still a weekend warrior. When I lived in Oregon and it was legal, I hunted at night after work, I can't do that now legally, so I don't. I don't shoot cats out of the tree 85% of the time (lions 100%). I know the type of people you all are talking about but don't just assume that people who are only able to hunt during the weekends are all scum craps that shoot whatever they tree or that those people don't want to be able to run 365 days a year. I am not typing this to say all weekend warrior are perfect, and I know we all know not all full time hunters are perfect, no one is. To me it has just always been irritating that people get placed into these classifications and then you read weekenders kill, guides let their clients kill, everyone kills, but that is not the case every time, or anytime. Sorry for typing all this and if you read it double sorry, We should all enjoy and support what we do, not blame other but help others.

[Conejos]

I couldn't agree more with you. The problem comes from everywhere and Mike I know just what you mean by guys that don't work. Here to the east of you a couple of hours the primary occupation seems to be cutting firewood and drinking beer. Its amazing how many women here support the whole family and the deadbeat husband. For once I thind the DOW got it right and this closure of units while painfull now will only improve our hunting in the future. These guys will learn to do whats right or be forced to eventually.

[bowhound]

I only wish we had a quota that low ... w/ a pursuit season afterwards. The area I hunt has a quota of 35 any lions with no pursuit season, and it's not that big of an area. That's the problem when the livestock industry controls the game and fish dept.

[2ndhound]

Glad that got cleared up.I was starting to think I was a wierdo cause I have to work all week and support the household & hounds,Alot of my equipment is homemade, and alot of it is "make do" stuff,I drive junk so I can afford to go,I go "without" so the dogs and wife can have,I have to be a weekend warrior out of necessity not choice,I cant very well stay out to all hours during the week chasing my hounds,get up at 4:30am hop in a semi and drive down the road half asleep sharing the road with other peoples loved ones,so until I retire I have to be a weekender,Im not much of a killer of critters.I just enjoy the dogs and trying to learn to train them,Im happy that the expression weekend warrior wasnt spoken with as much disdain as I was thinking it was,So anyway thanks for making it clear what you are talking about when you use that expression,