Runs to catch.

[1280]

What charateristics would a hound have to have for you guys to say that a hound runs to catch and doesn't just chase the game. I'm just wondering what you guys think.

[Clarka57]

Now I think that is an excellent question. My guess would be its a dog that will cut every logical corner to get to the game. By this I mean winding and not putting its nose in every track (when possible), lifting its head and running when ever possible and by that allowing them to look for movement, just having the personality that shows they are not in it for the trail, but in it for the catch, and showing more of the natural prey driven instinct (the last part may sound stupid but I know I have seen both).

[Clarka57]

Thought about that a bit more, and it seems like a dog has to have the brains for it too. I guess a dog could run to catch, but if the dog doesn't catch, how would you ever know? Keep in mind this is all just my opinion, but to me a dog that runs to catch is not just a fast trailing dog but one that can either guess good or more likely has a feel for where its quarry has gone. Of course experience can be key, but some dogs have more of a natural instinct and those dogs don't seem to get pleasure from following a trail but getting to the end of the trail. Of course on a cold track the dog needs to be able to grub out the track too. Anyways I hope a lot of others write a response to this thread because I think its very interesting.

[Ike]

Never owned a hound that just ran for the chase or one that wasn't interested in the catch. A good hound dimples an old lion track that doesn't have any scent in it until the track warms up and gets better; that same hound also learns to pick his head up when a bear leaves the tree and stick it's nose up that bears' azz--same with bobcat. I hear people talking about wanting hounds that run to catch and I often wondered what they meant; but then I've also heard lots of people talk about needing a start dog and I always figured any dog worth feeding these days should be able to start it's own track.

ike

[Ike]

I had a lion guide in the area hit me up some years back for a young dog that would start her own track. And I mistaking sold him a two year old bitch of mine out of my LionHeart dog that I should have kept. His major question about her was, "will she start her own track?" I told him that I'd never started her because she was to far down the food chain in my pack to get first snort on a lion, but went on to tell him that I'd give her a try. Well, she started a shitty old track the next time we hunted that was about as poor a track as I ever started and so he took her.

The correct question to ask about a dog is not whether it will start it's own track but will it finish that track, and that little red bitch went on to make him the best hound that he'd ever owned in over twenty-five years of hunting.

ike

[Clarka57]

Good stuff about a dog starting its own track Ike. Unless someone just needed more numbers for pressure for putting up a bear or stopping game, I don't really know why anyone would want a dog who couldn't start its own track. But as far as the difference in running to catch that I have noticed is where you said, " Never owned a hound that just ran for the chase or one that wasn't interested in the catch", being the part about interested in the catch. I have seen dogs interested (or why have them), and I have seen dogs consumed by the catch. In my opinion, there are good dogs of all types and I am not saying a dog that runs to catch means it is some how superior, it just has a different philosophy, personality, and a different drive. Just like most people like money, some don't care about it (that would be a cull dog), some are consumed by it, some cheat to get it, some are just given it (a babbling follow the pack dog), some persevere, and some like the experience of living life and get money because it a necessity. Not a great example of what I am thinking and maybe there is no difference between dogs, but I think their is.

[Clarka57]

Sorry but one more thought, when I said winding and holding its head up, I meant before the tree. I agree if their is a jump, a run to catch dog will not have its head down sniffing, its eyes wouldn't leave the game and its nose wouldn't have time to hit the ground. I would guess a lot of dogs with grit would run to catch, but dogs that run to catch would be gritty, they are not the same thing. Just my opinion.

[Ike]

Some good thoughts there as well Clarka57, and I'll agree some seem to shine when there isn't much hope. I walked several dogs down a ridge some years back striking for lion in old, crusty, deep snow. There was an adjacent canyon to not far from the trail and my blue Ryan dog started drifting scent from that canyon and in anothe rmile or so he dropped off the trail into a lion track and began opening. There wasn't any doubt in my mind that Ryan was picking up that scent off a thermal or wind current.

Another time I had my Ike dog up rigging for bear in the spring and he opened down the road (a road with canyons on both sides) for miles. It was early in my rigging bear experience and I began to think he was just babbling. The next day a huge boar came out of that canyon and fed on a deer that had gotten hung up in a fence and was dead. That bear took a crap that consisted of green grass that would have filled a couple five gallon buckles, so I shipped the dogs.

When I got down into that canyon I could see where that brute boar had left tracks all over the canyon--that canyon was littered with his tracks. And the scent from that canyon was what had Ike barking for miles the day before and I was too dumb to put him down without a track and go see.........

ike

[BigGameHunter]

Ha! Ike your story about that dogs stiking up and down the ridge reminded me of one. A few years back I was hunting an area similar to what you are describing. This road was steep up to the top of the ridge and flattened out, followed the top of a very narrow bare ridge for a few miles and then opens up into some pretty good pine and aspen groves. I had come up in the morning and hunted that open country in the morning and had gotten skunked. There was a howling wind that had come up while I was in there hunting so on the way out, we all know how those narrow ridgetops get in that kind of wind. I was just about back out to the end of the ridge ready to drop back down to the canyon below when Koda started striking hard. I drove through the strike, turned around and she hit hard again. I didn't think that kind of wind would be blowing scent up out of the canyon. I didn't have anywhere to be that afternoon so I sent them on their way. It to them about five min. to get down in the canyon far enough but they fired when they got there and a few hours later I had a little boar in a hole.

[BEvans]

I heard someone make the comment "This is a catch dog". Which I am guessing that is kinda what you mean by runs to catch. I didnt understand this comment for sure until I owned a dog that I considered fit that discription. My Dad picked up a 2 year old walker coon hound from the dog trader that was a complete total spazz. He was a complete mental basket case. Many of times within the first few months of hunting this dog I thought about culling him, but his hunting ability improved with every hunt so I kept him around. The fact that it was my Dads dog may have helped to. This dog was not the type of dog that would stick for hours grubbing the dirt looking for that little bit of scent. He was always out ahead of the pack making circle after circle trying to find the track. He would settle down and cold trail but he was always interested in moving the track. I know that having dogs stay anchored for hours in the same area while hunting in bad conditions pays off, but this dog just didnt like to do that. He always stayed within a few hundred yards of the pack, but he was just interested in getting the track going. When the track was fresh enough for him to move it, he had more natural ability to stay within the scent tunnel than any other hound I have ever owned. When the quarry had been jumped for hours making circles and doing every trick possible this dog had amazing ability to stay on the right end of the chase. Many of times I remember him catching the game several minutes before the other dogs. When most dogs would make a lose, this dog just seemed to make the right turn. He by no means was what I would considered the best dog we have ever owned but he does fit the discription catch dog or runs to catch.

[pete richardson]

to understand what a run to catch hound is , first you have to run with a bunch of dogs that dont run to catch -


i think this makes me an expert on the subject


run to catch means something different for different types of hunting



i like a dog that can cold trail . i dont like a dog that is too happy just to be coldtrailing-

if you are a coonhunter you may have seen some dogs that are very happy to catch a tree -
maybe a coon was there once
or maybe he hasnt got there yet
if your a bearhunter you might have seen some that like to catch a brushpile or thicket
where the bear was , a while ago


to me its just an attitude a hound has -he tries his guts out,no quit

strong desire -

he may never catch anything,but it doesnt stop him from trying

have heard alot about run to catch beagles --- ive seen some that i would describe that way
it was pointed out that they rarely catch anything
so now i call it , "run to get closer "

[Ankle Express]

Well 1280 you got 10 replies and one right answer. Mr. Richardson knows.


It is an attitude based on desire and effort but the true natural ability of track speed makes it all possible and must be present or your just trailing to maybe catch or just running to maybe catch. Runs to catch means so much more. It means that once the jump happens that critter had better run but at the end of the day even if it still wants to run the desire, effort and pressuring speed of the hound win out and the catch is made. After the jump its just a matter of time till something is caught. Not if but when. A dog that truly runs to catch will catch the highest percentage of jumped game possible. A dog that can run to catch and make their own jumps are the total package and worth their own weight in gold.

have heard alot about run to catch beagles --- ive seen some that i would describe that way
it was pointed out that they rarely catch anything
so now i call it , "run to get closer "

My first hunting dog was a bluetick/beagle cross. Not a big beagle maybe medium sized. We had bigger full blooded beagles in the pack. Hands down the best beagle to ever grace my yard and probably the best hound/hunting dog as far as that goes. That beagle taught me the difference and many more old time beaglers. He would jump them other beagles big and small on the first turnout till he was out front. Make the jump and just leave like they were sitting still. We'd kill that rabbit. Most of the time he would be so close he would see it roll but if he didn't he'd finish out to where you were standing or picked up that rabbit and the race was on again. Alone. He would go on and start another rabbit.Jump it and we'd be trying to kill it before the whole pack ever finished the first one.Sometimes get it killed before the other bunch was finished and rounded up. Them boys would spend all day trying to round up their little hop along beagles and pack them to my beagle running. An old man Clarence Hooper told me one day that dog has jumped and finished every rabbit we've killed today and most of the rest of them dogs ain't even seen one. We'd killed 17 that morning. I was so small I carried a BB gun. Been over 25 years ago and folks still talk about that dog. I never found his replacement and to this day still don't own a beagle. Our whole bunch quit after we lost that dog. We'd go and it would take all day to kill six rabbits. In one little thicket. They just hop along and squirt from bush to bush, unlike the days of old when they had to run like their a$$es were on fire to stay ahead of that dog. Them rabbits were having to make decisions they didn't want to, instead of doing as they wished. He ran to catch actually to a fault. Wouldn't quit. There was no half days or one race mornings before church. It was daylight till dark, no exceptions. If you didn't have the time, then be back at dark. Usually by dark he would be so gassed you could literally walk him down and catch him off track. I've actually seen him stand in place and bark like he was running but he weren't moving. Locked up. Muscles just in knots. I'd carry him back to our old Buick Le Sabre, 79' model remember them boats, lift the trunk and haul him back home. Yep in the trunk. Poor people got poor ways! He wanted it and something real bad too I mean. Taught me to also.I'm 32 now and was around five then when this love for a running race began but I can still hear little Jack bawling and running in mind like it was this morning. That little dog was a god-sent gift for me. We found him. Had to trap him in my buddies basement. Tried till we lost him to find his rightful owner. In a small town like this it should've been easy but nobody ever claimed him. Helped me through some dark days. I compare every hound/hunting dog I'm in contact with to that little beagle in some way. Do they have the heart,desire and drive to make their abilities useful? Thats what it means to me. Sorry to ramble on. JMO

[Ike]

What charateristics would a hound have to have for you guys to say that a hound runs to catch and doesn't just chase the game. I'm just wondering what you guys think.

As for lion, I've never hunted a hound that didn't run to catch. If that lion is jumped then it is caught has always been my rule of thumb. If a hound is in shape and knows how to cold trail, and if the track is somewhat fresh, then the dogs move along until the jump and it becomes a time issue--how far is the lion from the start and can a hound finish it before it gives out. But a jumped lion is usually a caught lion is most situations.

Bear hunting is different, and if a hound doesn't run to catch a bear will get away more times than not. A hound has to be willing to grub out an old track until it warms up, then pick it's head up and move that track faster as the scent allows. Finally, when the dog gets into the scent tunnel after jumping the animal it has to pick it's head up and sight trail at top speed for whatever distance it takes to stop that animal. A good bear dog is the best example that I can come up with, when the bear bails he's chewing on it's butt when it hits the ground and when shook off that hound has it's head up running with the bear until he blows the air out of him. Jumped bears don't get away from hounds where I live if that pack runs to catch.

ike