Trying to start pups

[LoudmouthSpike]

Hey Guys,
My father and I have 2 pups about 7 months old. We are in southern VT. The first week or so of cat season we had fresh snow every day. We were able to put them a few cats which they did there best to run, but with no older dogs with them and us being new to the game no cats were caught. Now our 2nd week is over and we have been without fresh snow for about 4 days. After spending about 8 hrs on Saturday and 4 or 5 today with no fresh tracks we have become discouraged. Just wondering if anyone has any advice on what we could do to get on the cats if the snow doesn't fall fresh for a while longer. We want to make decent cat dogs out of them but even the best dog can only do so much without tracks to run. Any ideas would be great and hopefully the snow is better where you are.
Thanks,
Dave

[BuckNAze]

Just keep doing what you're doing. Bobcats are hard to run, dont get discouraged, I learned that pretty quick. Keep putting them on tracks when you get snow or go to where there is mud in the roads and where there is snow on the sides of the roads and look for muddy tracks on top of snow, if its not that warm them sometimes you just have to get lucky or wait for fresh snow.

[LoudmouthSpike]

BuckNaze
Thanks for the tips. Haven't Had many places where the mud has come yet but thats a good thing to remember. Our snow has gotten stiff so not much is making a good track. Also the banks made by the plows are so hard that the road edges where you would normally get a clear track is out of the question. Hopefully we will get snow soon, but if not we will keep pounding the roads and hopefully get lucky. Thanks and Good Luck where you are,
Dave

[david]

Dave, if the snow is crusty and breaking like glass when the dogs walk on it, go home and wait for better conditions. But if the snow is safe for the dogs and you just can not find a track, this is what I do: I walk through sections where I know cats have used before. It is especially great that you have someone who could drive around and pick you up on the other side. I cant tell you how many times we have turned a cat trackless day into a good hunt by this method. I does not always work, but very often it does, and as far as I am concerned, I would rather be in the woods than sitting in a pickup

[LoudmouthSpike]

David
Thanks for the tip. We had considered that, and since it seems to be a successful technique we will have to try it. When you do this on bad snow do you have and tricks that allow you to clarify a cat and perhaps the freshness of a track when they all seem to look alike. Obviously if its real hot the dogs will let us know but if its some hours old but worth following until it heats up i wouldn't want to pass it up. Thanks again and Good Luck,
Dave

[Jason Waterhouse]

Calling for snow down in southern Vt tonight dave. Cross your fingers

[Jim Meacham]

Hoping like hell it does. Haven't had much luck seeing them on the side of the road the last couple of nights. But tomorrow I just might have to walk them through a couple of thickets to try to get them to raise one up. This is the only way I know with the snow the way that it is. Good luck

Jim

[Larry Emery]

Try and find a road kill deer and use it for bait.

[david]

Hey Guys,
My father and I have 2 pups about 7 months old. Dave

Dave, it just hit me how old you said your dogs are. Man, you have done great with dogs that young. There are many, many dogs that eventually make top bobcat dogs that never could do the whole deal until they were two years old or even older. You have given your pups a great start and got them cat minded very young. If you do nothing more than that this year, you have done extremely well. Give yourselves a big pat on the back.

You asked about track identification, and this can be nearly impossible in certain snow conditions. If you have evergreens with low branches, etc, just follow those tracks till they go under something like that where the snow is different. Sometimes this will reveal a clear track.

Certain types of snow will allow you to blow a track out to see a clear track frozen in the bottom of it.

In certain snow and certain light you can sink your flashlight into the snow next to the track and shine it through the snow across the track, and it will reveal more detail.

following tracks of all kinds will help you to get to know what is not a bobcat. Coyotes have certain habits, etc, that will give them away. For example, if a track is weaving over to check out every single object as a possible thing to pee on, you know it is a canine.

Study the drag marks of all animals, that will help you too. If a cat drags at all, it will look very clean and round and will go from one hole to another close hole. It might not really drag, but the exit holes will have slight drag at the edge. If a deer is dragging, the drag will skip holes, etc, etc. A coyote or fox will drag like a cat, but it will not look as clean or as round because of their foot shape, but also because of toenails. IF you have fisher, they can look exactly like a cat track if they are walking, but follow them and eventually they will start their hopping: a dead giveaway. The more time you can spend in the woods and out of your truck, the deeper will be your understanding of what goes on there. Snow is an amazing and wonderful gift for the enquiring mind.

Watch your pups, and study their body language. Watch them very closely when you know exactly what the tracks are. They have a different body language for coyote than they do for bobcat. Later, when you get them broke off coyote, dont waste too much time trying to figure out a track, get your good broke dog out of the box and let him tell you instantly what it is and about how old it is.

Here is a little clue I use for bobcat track Identification: If I see a track up ahead and my heart beat picks up, and then a little closer and the hair on my neck stands up, and then a little closer and a loud WoooooooOOOOOHAAAaaaaw!!!!!!!! goes echoing through the woods; Then I know it is a bobcat track.

[Marshall]

I have always wondered what in the hell was hopping around in the snow that had tracks just like a cat. thanks for the tip on the fishers, a guy learns something new every day.

[Nolte]

IF you have fisher, they can look exactly like a cat track if they are walking, but follow them and eventually they will start their hopping: a dead giveaway.

OR, a cat can bound a couple of leaps off the road and look JUST like a fisher.

David had the best advice. If it's a clean track and your gut is telling you it's a cat, it's a cat. If you try your darndest to make it a cat track, it's not. One thing I usually look for is a stride that is fairly short, for the size of the track.

4 days without snow, heck that would still be considered "fresh" around here. It seems like we go weeks at a time (or entire years) without any good snow. In our cat season you usually get about 4 good days and that's it. And you might as well chalk it up that 1 or 2 of those days will fall on Christmas or Christmas eve.

Good Luck, you're on the right path just keep after it. Not finishing 4 cat tracks with young dogs is no big deal. I've seen seasoned good cat dogs not finish 4-5 in a row and then rack up 3. Heck just getting them on 4 is better than the majority.

[sourdough]

Great advice Nolte. It take a pretty remarkable dog to regularly tree bobcat and we all have had to start somewhere and build from there. If you are starting from scratch, I can tell you, what pleases you today as far as cat dogs won't please you tomorrow. Keep them hunting as much as you can.

sourdough

[LoudmouthSpike]

Thanks for all the input guys. Don't get me wrong I am happy to have run a couple cats with them. Unfortunately we live in area with a lot of ground and only a few cats. Guess we'll just keep on pluggin' and keep all your tips in mind. We have about 3 weeks left so hopefully we can run a few more, and maybe if my bear dog will help we might even get a crack at one. Thanks Again and Good Luck,
Dave