Tracking wish list

[sambarhound]

I have been reading a few of the posts regarding the pros and cons of various tracking systems and antennas. Seems that most of the systems leave a fair bit to be desired.
If you could get a system made to order, what would be on the wish list?

For me I would want long battery life( need to define this)
Long range direction indication and gps
Antenna able to fold compact for carrying it through thick and thin
And for unit to be waterproof and the connections not to F@#$ up when you are miles from a vehicle.

Is there a system out there that meets these yet or is the garmin the best on the market at the moment. The beeper models have better battery life, so running two systems seems the go. Sounds like a business opportunity for a tracking system company.

[sambarhound]

The reason I started this post is so that tracking systems might be "improved" to better suit hound hunters. They gotta know what we want if they are going to ever build it for us......any wishes or is it as I expected. Hound hunters just like whining about things

[Steve White]

I have to believe that the tracking companies. Know what the hound hunters want. Garmin most likely did not when they made their unit. As it was designed for bird hunters. Now I have to believe they do know, as it has been hound hunters buying their equipment.

However, knowing what hound hunters want, and giving it to them is another thing. The cost issue comes up when trying to build the ultimate system. They have still got to be affordable to the average hunter. The newest system on the horizon is looking at pricing themselves out of reach for most hunters. That is what happens.

We all want to live in big houses on the hill. Still some can not afford more than a trailer in the park.

[Ike]

Yea I got a full mile out of my Garmin last time I went to the field with the standard antenna..the unit seems to be not only line of sight but line of sound. It does, however, do a really great job of telling me where I'm located and the truck as well. I guess a company can't get it all right for under a thousand bucks can they????

And you hit the nail on the head sambarhound, a unit worth buying needs all the things you mentioned and Garmin doesn't have them. I suppose its only smart marketing, sell you a little then make it better then sell it to you again, and at that rate in five or ten years (after five or ten thousand bucks) we'll have a unit worth owning.

Is it any wonder that China is booming while the U..S. workers are loosing their homes? Damn thing was made in China!

ike

[sourdough]

I don't own a Garmin and I don't know that I ever will, although the thought of being able to see the dogs on a map is something. I just have to much invested in the UHF receiver and collars I have to date, to take the risk on a new product, at this time it will not happen. What I have now works for me and I am happy. Knowing how to work it and trusting it is half the battle and with a GPS to go along with it, it's good enough for me.

sourdough

[sambarhound]

I agree with the problem with pricing items out of reach for the majority but companies such as ferrari, mercedes benz etc still do business. It seems that there is not even the option of a high end system that caters for the needs/wants of the hound hunters that either have the $$$ or are prepared to re mortgage the house to get the best. I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination but when it comes to my hounds then I would rather make financial sacrifices in other areas of my life. And to be honest if I totalled up all the diesel and time I have spent over the years "looking" for a hound I would have paid off two houses. But I dont have regrets about that. The memories are still there and I wouldnt have done it differently. BUT if I could have spent 5-10 grand on a "wish list tracking system" 20 years ago I would be that far in front on $$$ savings in time/fuel that I could have paid off one house!!

It seems to me that there is an argument that if a unit is made it will be too expensive for the majority of HHers. If the system has all the bells n whistles, long battery life, gps, waterproof receiver, long range, durable/robust fold up antenna, connectors that dont snap come loose 5 miles from the truck.......I will work an extra 10-20 weekends over summer and buy the system. The best part I like is being able to get more hunts in when you retrieve your hounds faster. If they are hunting it is not a problem. It is when the young inexperienced lose the scent and then begin wandering that frustrates me as it is time wasted that you are not hunting and training them up to do what you want. Or if you are spending time looking for a young dog you are not looking for a fresh start/hunting.

In the end the chinese will copy a system and add a few bells and whistles and you will be able to buy it at an affordable price. Maybe I need to try and make contact with a few chinese hound hunters and try and get the ball rolling. I am sure that there must be some form of hound hunting in china?

[Steve White]

Sour- Not that it matters a whole lot. Your current beep beep trackers are CW not UHF. UHF would be a very poor choice for tracking.


I would like to see improvements in our tracking units. A thing we all have to keep in mind as this new stuff comes out. Is to make apple to apple comparisons. Comparing a new unit with a 5" antenna to and old one with a 36" antenna is not a fair test. New equipment coming out also brings a better understanding of how things work. Prior to the release of the GPS units. Few people knew what line of sight was. Some still do not understand it. Ideally tracking systems soley based on satellite is where we need to go. This is going to be a long ways off yet. Until then everything is going to be based on line of sight. So given the transmitters are equal. Having a unit with a 3" antenna is going to be inferior to a unit with a 36" antenna. That is being the sensitivity of the receivers are the same.

I would like to see a unit that wears like a watch, or maybe on a screen in a pair of glasses. Less bulk to carry around. yet things like this will be a long way off as you could not get a large enough antenna in them right now.

I know my hearing is my best sense. Yet a lot of time cannot hear the dogs very far off, or the sound is deceiving. Relying on my ears, or beep beep. In my last 2 hunts would had me in some extra effort situations. A longer walk one day for sure, and yesterday who know?? Dogs would have gone into a 48sq mile swamp 2 hours before dark! That could have been bad.

Amplified antennas, more durable units, units with tracking beacons built in. (for when I drop one ) Longer battery life. Are all things that may come soon. Hopefully they will at a price we all can afford.

Heck I wish more someone would come out with a truck that was more durable!! Just another thing that needs improvements in our lives!!

[sambarhound]

Sounds like you know ur stuff steve re electronics. What does an amplified antenna do? I am guessing it amplifies the signal it is receiving. Can this process not be done in the receiver or is it something different.

I understand the principal with line of sight and have experienced the shortcomings of using collars in the 153/151 frequency range. We hunt in mountainous country and sometimes a signal is lost and you only drive around the corner where you can see past a ridge and you have it back. The secret to getting the best out of ur units is in understanding how they work and then dragging out the topo map and searching for areas to try and get a signal.

How much difference/importance is sensitivity in the reciever and how is it measured? Ie. if you are comparing different brands/models of receiver, what is the sensitivity measured in.


Then there is the signal output of the transmitter(collar). I am not a electronics nerd. I am a carpenter. I know with my batery operated tools the higher the output the shorter the time between charging. Where we hunt(mountains) there is not much benifit of running your handheld UHF on 5w as 1w will usually be fine. The signal is usually lost because line of sight is lost before distance becomes an issue(signal too weak). What are most of the beep collars running at as far as output goes?

[larry]

Yea I got a full mile out of my Garmin last time I went to the field with the standard antenna..the unit seems to be not only line of sight but line of sound. It does, however, do a really great job of telling me where I'm located and the truck as well. I guess a company can't get it all right for under a thousand bucks can they????

And you hit the nail on the head sambarhound, a unit worth buying needs all the things you mentioned and Garmin doesn't have them. I suppose its only smart marketing, sell you a little then make it better then sell it to you again, and at that rate in five or ten years (after five or ten thousand bucks) we'll have a unit worth owning.

Is it any wonder that China is booming while the U..S. workers are loosing their homes? Damn thing was made in China!

ike

Don't know why your garmin doesn't work well for ya ike, but I couldn't imagine turning a dog loose without one. I've never lost a dog's positionfor more than a few minutes off and on, get a truck antennea and a long range portable and quit depending on that rubber ducky. It is unbelievable how muc htime it saves on getting to a tree and recovery of dogs. i had dogs running down haul roads in a mine the other day after trailing a cat through the overburden piles. Garmin saved em from who knows what. I haven't had a dog spend the night since using the garmin. i think they are great. You can evaluate dogs performance as well. I'm not hunting flatlands, big mountains and cliff and ledges, deep canyons andlots of vertical. I can't imagine going back to the mysterious bouncing beep. Ran in Ca where they are illegal and had to use the telemetry, i won't be going back to Ca for that reason alone. It's not perfect, but by far the best way to track dogs.

[catdogs]

I'm sure the ol timers thought telemetry was the best thing since sliced bread. Now the Garmin is 100 times better than that, here is a unit that tells you exactly where the dogs are, a compass bearing and distance to get to your dogs, all in a compact unit that shows detailed USGS quad maps of the nearest road to take to get there.... WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT??? I have been using the Garmin units for 2 years now. I can honestly say that since using them, my cat numbers have doubled. I'll turn out on 2-3 day old tracks now, on tracks later in the day, on tracks in wolf country, I can gather my dogs faster to move on to another race, etc. because I know exactly where the dogs are. I have no issues with the unit what so ever. I have never had issues with battery life, or range problems (other than temporary). If you loose the dogs, go to a high point and you'll pick them right back up. I personally would not like to see anymore improvements or gadgets, if it gets any easier everybody and there dog will be running cats and bears!

[Steve White]

Sounds like you know ur stuff steve re electronics. What does an amplified antenna do? I am guessing it amplifies the signal it is receiving. Can this process not be done in the receiver or is it something different.

I understand the principal with line of sight and have experienced the shortcomings of using collars in the 153/151 frequency range. We hunt in mountainous country and sometimes a signal is lost and you only drive around the corner where you can see past a ridge and you have it back. The secret to getting the best out of ur units is in understanding how they work and then dragging out the topo map and searching for areas to try and get a signal.

How much difference/importance is sensitivity in the reciever and how is it measured? Ie. if you are comparing different brands/models of receiver, what is the sensitivity measured in.


Then there is the signal output of the transmitter(collar). I am not a electronics nerd. I am a carpenter. I know with my batery operated tools the higher the output the shorter the time between charging. Where we hunt(mountains) there is not much benifit of running your handheld UHF on 5w as 1w will usually be fine. The signal is usually lost because line of sight is lost before distance becomes an issue(signal too weak). What are most of the beep collars running at as far as output goes?

Sambar- Wow! Those are some good questions. Glad I had a few cups of coffee. So maybe I can answer them all correctly.

An amplified antenna, or booster is just that. A device that increases the gain of the antenna elcetronically. Many folks have been using one when the y use a scanner like the Icom R10 for a tracking box. Without it they are pretty poor on the range. The GRE model is the most common one. The drawback is with the signal you also get a lot of white noise. Also damage can be done with a strong power source nearby. SOme units do have them built into them. IE the near far switch in some boxes.

Sensitivity is a huge factor in how well a unit is going to receive weak signals. It is measured in uv. With that u being one with a leg at the front, or a p with the top chopped off. Believe it stands for micro volts. The lower the number the better the sensitivity. Also it will be displayed at times a -???DB Not all will tell you the sensitivity. An example is the Icom R10 is .4uv while the Tracker complete is .078uv, 0r -130db. The marshall 4000 is -151 no uv given. the wildlife 2000 is -150db or .007uv. Can't find it on the quicktrack box. There will be some variaoion base on the sineaid that is used for the tests. some use -10 db others -12, and have seen -20. Not all will tell you this for a fair comparison. Since the above units are all cw a fair comparison can be made overall. The Garmin receives a digital signal so comparing the sensitivity of it is not a fair comparison. Also they do not list the sensitivity of it. I will have to ask next time I call them.

Your right about the power useage as compared to line of sight in lost cases. Sometimes though it will help at the fringe of the line of sight in being heard. Most beep beep collars out there are transmitting at .2mW. The Marshall collar is at .6mW.

Hope this helps a bit!

[U.R.E.]

I want to be able to set the collar on bobcat, 30lbs or more and within 25yds of the road.....

Guess I had a bit to much caffine this morning........

[sambarhound]

I am with you ure. I would be setting on mine on sambar stags over 30 inches!!!! I suppose it is a wish list