Too Young

[sheimer]

I have a question for you all. I have 2 dogs, one is at the vet getting sewed up from downfall cutting her up. The other one is a 6 month old pup. He's been under several lions so far and is coming along well. My question is: If he was your pup, would you run him alone at this age? I probably not going to, but I'd still like your opinions.

Scott

[larry]

absolutely! walk him down as many tracks as you can find. If you are lucky you will walk him down long enough to get a jump, then he'll learn to do it on his own and not be a me too dog. Walkin him down tracks alone is the best thing for a 6 mon old. Pack hunting him will just hide his faults that much longer.

[poser]

Sheimer, i agree with larry on this idea, good advice. If you are smart enough to only own a few pups you will make a more independent dog and actually see what he or she is really getting done. Me personally, i don't like dogs on leashes. Get them out and see what they are gonna do without you holding them back. If they aren't minding, spend more time handling them.

The problem i have is that i "exceed" at stupidity and would never have the chance to just take one pup down a lion track. If you are dumb like me, hopefully not, just walk or ride the pony and watch the dogs. You will see who is doing what and who is working through the rough stuff and pushing things through.

Best of luck fellas, jason

[sheimer]

Thanks for your input guys -
Larry, I've run the pup alone on scent trails and with another dog. I kept the other dog on a leash and let the pup go, and he went, leaving the other dog behind. I moreover meant putting him on a track and lettin' er rip and see what happened. I really doubt that he wouldn't run it to the jump but that's where I would get concerned. He's just not that fast and I would hate to get him outran or not be able to get out of the way if the cat decided not to run.

Poser, I seriously doubt that your stupidity "exeeds" mine. I have done more than my fair share of stupid things.

Scott

[larry]

if you think he's capable of lettin er rip, sure. but i would wanna be at the end of a tri tronics button right with him if some deer happen to jump up, and i would wanna be there to keep him lined out if things got tricky or he only took the track a couple hundred yards and lost interest or got distracted by something else. pounding out a lion track and a drag are two very different challenges. Pounding out tracks with pups has a way of making cold nosed dogs IMO. Even better if he can't run it down and make it tree right at the jump, just that much more hot scent to keep trailing and learning patience and discipline. I wouldn't personally worry in the slightest about his safety. i have known of jack russells that can put a lion up a tree, size didn't seem to be an issue, one of my better dogs is 30-35 lbs, and I worry more about the lion's safety then hers

[sourdough]

As much as I hate to give Larry kudos, he is right! IMO you need to give a dog some individual time to prove themselves. I know you lost a dog to wolves, and from my point of view from being in the same position with a couple different packs, one being my fault not paying attention to how old my lead dogs were getting, and the other losing a lead dog to a lion. Both those incidence showed me how much the other dog were actually doing, not to say the hound I ended up with were not good dogs, they just were not the work horses the dogs I lost made them out to be. From those two wrecks it's made me picky as hell. If nothing transpires from walking tracks out, you should end up with a dog that has a great handle. Good luck Sheimer!

sourdough

[Jim Evenson]

He isnt going to catch a lion on the end of his leash. If you want to walk a dog its much easier to do that at home. If you want him to hunt turn him loose. I would recomend walking the track all the way to the tree because he is probably going to get screwed up a few times, but be persistant and keep getting him back on the track. Dogs sense your drive if you have alot of quit in you so will your dogs.

[jhelvik]

He isnt going to catch a lion on the end of his leash. If you want to walk a dog its much easier to do that at home. If you want him to hunt turn him loose. I would recomend walking the track all the way to the tree because he is probably going to get screwed up a few times, but be persistant and keep getting him back on the track. Dogs sense your drive if you have alot of quit in you so will your dogs.

I agree 100%. I like what you had to say about how a dog can sense your drive. I have found this to be absolutely true. If you are lazy and don't push ahead to help your young hound make it through the tougher parts of the track then he will essentially learn to quite himself.

[twist]

Scott, I agree with what everyone is saying about a pup not learning anything on the end of a lead turn him loose as much as possible but on the other hand keep in mind he is only 6 months old and still a pup so dont expect (great things to happen real fast). He still needs a few months to mature. Most pups at that age are not lion or bobcat machines and anyone saying they are I would sure like to see it, there is always the stories of old so and so when he or she was 6 months they were catching cats all by themselves but I have yet to see it first hand on a consistant basis. later Andy

[blackpaws]

i don't know much about lion hunting a pup but i don't really like to put a 6 month old pup out by himself on a bear. too many things to set him back being by himself. if he catches and gets run off or smacked around with no help or support it can set his confidence back or possibly ruin him. i agree that he won't catch anything on the end of a leash but i think pups learn by first hand experiences with the other trained or lead dogs.

[sheimer]

Thanks for the responces. I may well turn him out by himself. I wouldn't let him get any further out than I physially can. I don't know a lot about this, but I do know that a dog can tell how much effort you are putting into a chase. I might have come across wrong in my last post. I know full well that he is no "lion catching machine" and have no expectation of him to be at 6 months. I just know that he will run the track without other dogs, but that doesn't mean he will catch it or not get distracted. No matter how good any dog is, they are still just a dog. I was mostly concerned about safety.

Thanks again

Scott

[Brady Davis]

I have no problem with 6 month old dog running a track but I can tell you that unless I was VERY comfortable with the situation (ie, other hounds, deer, country, etc) I'd be a little worried about a 6 month old getting to a lion before me. Most 6 month olds I've had/seen aren't physically able to move like they can at a later age.

That said, many studies have been done on scent hounds that suggest getting the dogs senses working at that age is how they become concrete later on.

I also agree with everyone so far that having a handle on the dog at this age will make things much easier and much safer.

[sheimer]

Guys - 6 months may or may not be too young, but 7 months is definately not! I decided to go out late this morning and took just the pup. I cut a decient track and put him down. He took it and was gone. I caught up to him on his way back from the tree. He was only about 200 yards back and I turned him around and sent him back and he ran it back to the tree and was waiting for me there. He was lacking on the treeing part, but the cat treed in the bigest damn fir in the coulee about 40 feet up. Once I cleared most of the limbs out of the way and he saw the cat he treed well.

Thanks for the support.

Scott

[Brady Davis]

Guys - 6 months may or may not be too young, but 7 months is definately not! I decided to go out late this morning and took just the pup. I cut a decient track and put him down. He took it and was gone. I caught up to him on his way back from the tree. He was only about 200 yards back and I turned him around and sent him back and he ran it back to the tree and was waiting for me there. He was lacking on the treeing part, but the cat treed in the bigest damn fir in the coulee about 40 feet up. Once I cleared most of the limbs out of the way and he saw the cat he treed well.

Thanks for the support.

Scott

Thats freakin awesome Sheimer! Congrats, sounds like you got a good pup.