Coyotes and Bears?

[Jason Waterhouse]

I free cast alot during the fall in mast crops,apples and corn, So if my dogs are barking I wanna no its a bear. We have just as many coyotes as coons it seams like. I dont disagree with ya that coyote hunting isnt fun cause it sure is. I just dont want to use a broke bear dog on coyotes. I go with guys alot that have coyote hounds coyote hunting they come with me when they want to go bear hunting. So i guess thats why i never considered run yotes also with my hounds.

[The Ole' Guy]

Have to agree with Jason,for the reason he stated,way more yote tracks by far vs. cat tracks.

[Collar Depot]

I live in WI, we run our beardogs on Coyotes all winter to keep them active and there is no issues when bear season comes around, but I only let my dogs run coyotes when there is snow, I dont run them on dry ground becuse that is when they sould be running bears. If you do that you should be in good shape, you will make better dogs also.

[Jason Waterhouse]

I live in WI, we run our beardogs on Coyotes all winter to keep them active and there is no issues when bear season comes around, but I only let my dogs run coyotes when there is snow, I dont run them on dry ground becuse that is when they sould be running bears. If you do that you should be in good shape, you will make better dogs also.

The problem is loudmouthspike is trying to run his beardogs on cats in the winter on the snow. Im afraid they would leave a coldtrail on a bobcat for a hotter coyote track on snow. If he exposed them to coyotes. Every year i run a few bears on snow. I dont want them leaving that bear track on snow because they think its time to run coyotes.
Why do you think in makes a better dog because the dog will trail a coyote and a bear. Instead of just being a broke bear dog?

[not color blind]

Jason, collar depot was just giving his opinion like everyone else. As to why it could make better dogs, shipping a young dog behind on a hot bear track doesn't take much trailing ability. Letting that same young dog work a animal that gives of a lot less scent should make the dog a better all around trailer. I don't know how long your guys bear season is but ours is only about 3 months. If a guy only has weekends to hunt that doesn't give a guy a lot of time in my opinion. Most people don't/shouldn't want there hounds sitting on a chain for 9 months. It sounded to me like LMspike wasn't to worried about the cats he just wanted to work his dogs in the winter. Let them know its not okay to run anything else on dry ground. Good topic. Let's here some OTHER peoples opinions.

[Jason Waterhouse]

Our bear training and kill season is a little over 5 months.
I usually try to let a young dog start a track when I no its a bear or have seen it. Not just dump um behind constantly.Gives them a chance to use there tracking ability. Like you said good topic lets hear some other opinions.

[Larry Emery]

One of the best cat dogs I have ever hunted with is just as awesome on coyotes as he is on cats, he seems to know when he is set on a track either cat or coyote to stay with the track he was set on, I do not think we give our dogs enough credit for how smart they are.

[Ryan282]

my bear season is only a month and theres no training season.I started my plott pup this fall on coon then we ran bear.After bear season i started running him with a pack of walkers on coyote.At first he was just running with the pack, but after a few runs he ran his own track.I think it really helps his tracking skills.He is bred for bear and that is why I got him but I have a good time runnin coyotes.

[LoudmouthSpike]

Thanks Again to everyone who has replied. Everyone has some good points. i do have to agree with jason. Here our coyotes way out number our cats, and our bears also. And as he said I would want a cold trail cat to turn into a hot yote or a cold bear to do the same. We expereince yotes alot so it seems this could be a problem. Also we have a walker who is yote crazy as it is and he needs a refresher now and then to get his act together if I encourage him he may never stop. Glad to see so many people getting in on the topic keep em comin
Thanks,
Dave

[Nolte]

We run yotes with our dogs in the winter, bear in the summer and don't have but a few off-races during bear season. It happens but not real often. I'd rather have them run a yote than tree a coon. The yote willl eventually come out while I'l be walking in to some $hit hole to get a dog off a coon. We've got a lot of coon though, probably like some of you guys have yotes.

It seems like all dogs have a preference for what they run. I think that many times hunters try to mold the dogs to what the hunter wants to run, not what the dog is wired to run. We'd all be better off if we just sent that dog that is wired to run something else to somebody that will hunt it hard. I've seen a few dogs that will stay on the track you put them down and that is a real treat to have, but I think it's a more common to have a dog that will take the "best" non-trash track it comes across. Or I've seen some that will leave a jumped track to go cold trail their favorite type of critter. It all just depends.

I think you can combo bear/cats with little problems and bear/yotes with a few off runs. But I think it's much harder to get one that combos cats/yote without track switching unless you keep them on one critter for say 2 months and then switch. If you do it every other day it doesn't seem to work much.

Yote runnin is a blast and they are one of the most cagey animals you'll find. They pull more tricks to lose the dogs than nearly any other critter. Cats I think are tougher to catch but I think it's more because of their travel habits and the way they run. A seasoned yote is just plain smart, but I guess you get that way when something has been trying to kill you you're entire life.

It amazes me how on a yote chase that everyone is trying to kill the critter from the get-go and they still figure out a way to get away. And you can bet your @ss that they will keep doing it until you figure it out. One thing I have noticed is that dogs that can really burn a yote and make few losses will really shine on a little country-travelin runnin bear. They've already played that game a number of times. Now if they stay on a mean one, you've got a pretty darn good turn-in or pack dog.

[pete richardson]

if i could use bait to run bear ,i would run all but my start dog and most likely replacement on coyote in the winter

i hate dogs sitting on chain for months-

we cant use bait here
we use rig dogs 90% of the time-

we pretend to use one official rig dog outside the box to rig--- the problem is all dogs are rigging --
breathing the same air- -- when dogs in box go wild on coyote scent---the official rig dog may open too -

i never know which pup is going to be next rig dog




i had a friend with a good bear dog that kept running coyote - he got so sick of trying to break him , he gave up ran him on coyotes hard all winter

--now tell me why this dog quit running coyotes on bare ground ??

i had a cur dog i started on bear- he was nasty on the tree - so i spent the winter teaching him some manners and running coyotes-

the next year---ran him on bear -- i never could get him to run a coyote after that - i used him to start bear off baits in maine that were covered with coyote tracks


i had an older coyote hound i used as a spare bear dog ---he never ran a coyote when bear hunting but i was always nervous about it -he was as good a bear or cat dog as ive seen , i always wished id never ran him on coyote --
i cant say he would have been as good if he wasnt run hard on coyotes -


coyotes are about worse trash when im bear hunting--- hard to catch them at it-

hard to break them if they get good at it - we have a few bear we call coybear-

they look like bear ,but run like coyote

those bear are the reason ive used coyote dogs on bear -the coyote dogs can tree them --
ive seen the same thing with coon-

i have had great luck with pups i started on coon-- hunted them a couple weeks -

usually when bears den , coon den a couple weeks later ---

they arent coondogs but they can tree coon --no more problem with coon with them than ive had with some dogs that were shocked or whipped on every coon -

have had buddies bring dogs that had hundreds of coon shot to them and if u put them on fresh bear track they dont seem to bother coon


most of the above makes no sense to me---but thats how it is



i always say im gonna run two dogs on coyote and use them as turn in dogs on bear-

ive said that the last 25 years and havent done it yet

[Ankle Express]

I hear what your saying and I hate leaving a dog tied up too but this is simply a regional thing/issue. For instance here where I live in the mountains with little or no road access we typically don't run coyotes. Major trash. Coon as well but they are somewhat different in my opinion. Being that typically 9 out of 10 aren't going to run very far. Most likely just a fraction of the distance a faster race on longer legged game is going to go. So the battle I'll choose is the shorter walk to a tree. Not a cat/coyote bayed,holed,breaking or bailing possibly further from the truck than we should have caught a bear. Not to mention my one day a week is now shot. Completely, and maybe more if they go on into no-mans land and scatter all out. I have to deal with dogs choosing to trash any way w/out encouraging it. They are gonna do it and it is seen by me as trash. Mine need tune-ups as we speak. We do have a small area here of lower lying more open ground, farmland, where guys do run coyotes w/ hounds. Its about the only thing in those areas to run anyway. Lots of guys go and try their bear dogs in with the coyote races after bear season but the same things usually happen. They either don't bring their coonhound ancestry bear dogs back or they are for sale or trade for true coyote dogs. Running dogs. Talk about molding a dog into something it ain't well coonhound ancestry hounds or tree dogs are not running dogs. I know some lines and breeds are more comparable to running dogs than others but from my experience nothing holds up from day in day out wide open running than the running breeds. I reckon they all realize why run behind on trash for exercise if the catch can or can't be made and isn't what you want the dog for anyhow? You can road dogs for exercise, help with handling and tune-up for trash at the same time. Three steps forward not one forward and one backward. I guess my point also is I want to hunt with the best most skilled dog for the job. Why? Its gonna be a better day.

[LoudmouthSpike]

AE we are in the same boat. we have some fairly large tracts of ground with no roads to break them up. That would make the coyote races hard to end. I have noticed that alot of the midwestern guys say that they run the yotes. But out there it is open and flat so that makes it different. Plus I assume they have a larger bear population so running into more yotes than bears in a day probably isn't as likely as it is here.

[not color blind]

OPEN and FLAT ?? sounds like someone needs to come experience some of wisconsins national forests.

[Ankle Express]

Yeah we are hunting similar ground then. Where I live it looks a lot like upstate new york on the average. Pretty good sized mountains, hardwoods and laurel thickets. The terrain changes as you go up in elevation. At around 3500-4000 feet they start changing fast. Terrain at the tops is like being further north than upstate New York. More like Quebec and Maine. So I got something just like your terrain. Probably right around 5000 feet. I understand exactly where Nolte is coming from as well though. But thats the terrain/regional issue. Hes most likely hunting low lying or flat ground. Its thick real thick, its just like the other end of my state if anything but not any worse, but cut up into blocks w/ road systems. Much quicker and easier on them for the dogs to come to the road(s) with whatever they got. A coon tree in the middle of a block effects their day more negatively than mine and vice versa. Wading thru thickets and maybe standing water to a coon tree can really suck for them especially with large numbers of dogs. I've hunted alot of places and different terrains. The needs might vary a little but the bottom line is always the same, a good straight dog will catch you their game under any and all conditions. But your handling can create something that my be hard to control under some certain conditions. jmo