California are you ready for bear zones???????

[Liz ODell]

While there are several good things going on in the proposed 2010 Bear Hunting Regulations I have to ask did anyone notice the proposal for going to bear zones or Bear Management Units? (and can someone tell me if these are one in the same - they contradict each other in terms of which counties will be included in what zone or BMU and there is no formal discussion of the zones, just a map)
The Commission says they do not recommend it *YET*, like I have said in the past, I have heard the zone proposal from several DFG mucky mucks and now here it is in black and white.
Read the reason's for this proposal, it is so that they can have more control over the killing in certain bear populations....why?
Well here in the county I live in it would be safe to say that over half the kill is from guides and out of state hunters, we never used to have this pressure.

BUT INSTEAD OF PROPOSING TO MORE CLOSELY REGULATE THE KILLING DONE BY GUIDES AND OUT OF STATE HUNTERS THEY PROPOSE TO SCREW THE LOCALS.

How would that happen? Well the zone (or BMU) that I and most of my friends live (live meaning I pay taxes in this county and state and have to put up with CADFG's laws 365 days a year) in would recieve the second least amount of tags out of the zones. Our allowed kill would also be one of the lowest. So if this proposal gets adopted now or in the future we will have to sit around at home, hoping to draw a bear tag (the same tags that all the out of staters are putting in for) and hope to get some hunting in before the guides and out of staters have killed enough to close the season in our unit...this is bulls%*t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its time to do something about this, almost every other state that allows bear hunting has restricitons on the amount guides are allowed to kill and on out of state hunters...are we just going to keep burying our heads in the sand....? If you are worried we will lose support then go and look at donations made to CHC and COHA, see how many donations come from out of state people and how many donations come from people you know guide (legal or not)...we won't lose anything but OUR right to hunt in OUR state if we continue to ignore this

Hope I'll see you all in Sacramento on Thursday. Please download the Draft Environmental Document and read it, its available on the CADFG Comission website.

[Mt Goat]

Liz

I didnt read the entire 171 pages yet BUT if you are so concerned with out of state hunters and guides ? going to a number of tags per zone would make the zones you hunt less hunted by out of staters and guides. Remember Guides dont harevest bears Hunters with Tags do, Guides just help hunters with tags fill those tags. Guides dont buy more than one tag, if they even do that. Let go a step further with some common sense, lets say your favorite zone has an average of 100 bear harvested each year, Im sure that the number of tags availble in that area would be figured at something like an 8-10% success kill ratio to the number of hunters with tags hunting that area. So you would get something around 1000 tags, and most likely more. You have to figure that something like 25,000-30,000 plus tags are sold each year in the state, and only 1700 bears are Harvested that would equal something like 17-18 hunters for every one hunters success right now. So multiply the 100 (made up harvested number in your favorite spot) that would make 1700-1800 tags for your area. If in reality your favorite spot is averaging 300 bears ? then times that by the 17 or 18 people, that would now make your tags for that area at 5100-5400 tags available.

Also think about it this way, if your area is being over hunted then the DFG could reduce the number of tags, or if the population is to may bears they could increase the number of tags available. This would give the DFG the ability to actually manage wildlife based on the bear populations per area. Which in my opinion would would be good bear management.

[radar]

We won't know until they say or give an idea of how there going do it. I hope they end up making it go tell the end of December.

[fallriverwalker1]

oooook folks when are you going to learn fish hand game is not your friend . this zone crap is to manage hounds men not to manage animals , how do you intend to stop your dog from crossing an imaginary line drawn on a map . what will you tell the warden when he's writing your ticket for your dog being out of your zone , there will be no forgiveness you will get aticket when wil you people start listing to some of us old farts that have seen this time after time . these people are not your friends when they stop you its to find a way to ticket you the more you talk the worse off you are you have the right to remian sielent but do you have the ability to im tired of hearing we have to get along with these people the antis talk loud and cause trouble who gets herd the most hey its not us

[Mt Goat]

Fallriver

Ill tell you what I dont consider to many people to be friends and I dont trust anyone, but my family. That inclueds Houndsmen and Government Agentsees.

Houndsmen have a bad rap because we did it to ourselfs. We need to change the impression of us as an entire group. The DFG is after certain people all the time, WHY because they push the line, why do we get checked and maybe harrassed, because of the BAD Reputation of a few. IMO the Days of the Outlaws better end, or so will Hunting with Hounds

I'll add that I've NEVER been harrassed by the DFG BUT i havent given them any reason to either, sure I have been check and even had my truck searched but I didnt see it as harrassment. You may feel that the DFG isnt your buddys and they most likely arent, BUT I will say they are our partners in wildlife conservation, and we as Hunters should ALL stand behind wildlife conservation. If we as a group are always at odds with the guys making and enforcing the rules we're going to always be the odd ones out.

When is enough, enough ? If we ever want to move forwards and have things go our way, our voice needs to be heard, If your not in the room talking they cant hear. So your advice of looking at them as the evil enemy seems to me to be backward minded. You dont have to trust them but know, if your not doing anything wrong you wont have to worry about them giving you a ticket either. IMO if a Houndsmen cant catch game without having to cheat then get better dogs, Lifes to short to hunt behind crappy dogs that cant do it themselfs.

Another way of looking at it, if you think the DFG is the enemy, is to think of the saying The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend. The Anti's are the enemys of us all, so I'll look at the DFG as my Friend.

[fallriverwalker1]

t goat my opion came at considerable cost to me four years ago a warden with a n issue with me did just what he said he would do , i was arrested , had to hire an attorney went to court numerous times , they tried to get me to plead out . all i could say was tell me what i did wroung , when i finally went before a judge all charges were dropped , to this day that warden still wont look at me . i tried to find an att to sue for my time and money i was told it would be tough to win because he only said it to me . if you knew the whole case .yuod have a diffrent opion of your friends ,my attituide wont change neither will my comments i do sincerly hope you never have to go through what i did to my knowledge i have tried to stay within the law . but im not an attorney and cant understand all of them . call me i'll tell you the whole story www.fallriverwalker.com

[Mt Goat]

Fallriverwalker1

I feel for you, and I hope I never have to go through what you went through. Im not asking you or anyone to change their opinion of the DFG. BUT know this, if we dont get behind them we will lose. The Anti's are going to be coming after us more and more every year. If we are not united as conservationalist for maintaining wildlife, Bears in general, we will eventually lose standing allown. The DFG needs to have the sole right to enforce policy in regards to hunting and the Means of Take, not an anti animal ownership, anti hunting, misinformend group of people.

[fallriverwalker1]

mt goat im not trying to cause trouble . i dont know you dont know how long youve been around ,but i do remember a man by the name of terry mansfield , back in the 80;s he said the same things you say , we have to get along if you guys want to come out on top .when we got in the senate room he sold us out with a smile on his face. he was the head bioligest for fish and game its real hard to believe these people any more . ive sat in on a lot of commision meetings the first one they tell you what you want to hear , the last one will tell what you get so dont get to excited yet.

[BARTAMENKO]

mt goat
i was at the meeting where we lost out, when it came to are bear training season
i was at the around when we lost are lion season
i was around when we lost so many of our fishing priviledges
i was around when they poisened davis lake
dfg follows the money and that is the liberal vote they are not managing game they are trying to manage the hunter and the fishermen
they do not look at the hunter as the main enviromentalist which we ARE and also the hunter is the goup of people that pays there wages and also we are the ones that pay for habitat
dfg go out and buy land in the river bottoms from the state, that we have been able to hunt on for generations and then take it away from us they are the ones that put the wildlife area into affect below marysville and decided it needed to have an eco test area and then we have a major flood the levee broke right where they had there so called eco testing area oh yah i for sure want to have them in complete control and yes that is sarcasm that you hear
have you noticed the deer population that could not be because of possibly lion dfg mistake
have you noticed all the bear nuisance problems we did not have that problem when there was a training season dfg mistake.
oh yes the dfg goes out to irradicate the pig population instead of opening up a more liberal take
what is dfg answer to these problems it is not using the hunters to help take care of these problems oh no. they send there state trappers or state hunters in to take care of problems that they created . plus they pay big money to these hired killers to do it where do you think dfg gets this money from

its from us

i can go on and on but i've vented enough you can be there partner in lunacy i will not
i also don't think it is fair that all houndsmen should be catagorized as outlaws because of a very small select few. instead of treating us all like criminals why not fire the wardens that can't catch the outlaws and hire some that can.
this is my opinion

[radar]

All this bs sounds like a bunch of club talk.F-the DFG and F- a freaken condor.....


wow don't know were that last one came from oh yeah FFFF---copper bullets too!!!

[Mt Goat]

Thanks Radar You made my point. As long as Houndsmen continue to have attitudes like yours we will always be looked at as ingorant backwoods rebels that dont fit into the modern age, and you guys wonder why we are looked down on and harrassed buy the Fish Cops.

The DFG Field Officers, dont make the laws they just enforce them. IF we dont like the Laws the way they are written we need to go through the proper ways a trying to change the Written Laws so we dont have Gray areas opened up to personal interpitation. If we dont like how restricted the rules are we need to work and try to get them loosened up. Cops will always be Cops. Some are cool some are pricks. Attitude has a big influence in how a person is treated, but again some cops are pricks. So how do we go around the hard a$$ cops with a boner for us ? try to change the written laws and change gray areas in the laws open to their personal interpitation.

Fallriverwalkers

Im far from excited. I will say if these changes are made I will be happy, but I feel we still have a long way to go for what I'd like to see, and thats a Pursuit Season, even smaller restrictions on Closer Zones. BUT moving forwards no matter how fast it is, is better than standing still or going backwards.

[Plott Proud]

All this bs sounds like a bunch of club talk.F-the DFG and F- a freaken condor.....


wow don't know were that last one came from oh yeah FFFF---copper bullets too!!!

WOW ~ radar, what club talk? Why are you afraid of being united with a club such as CHC which is Fighting Every Day for YOUR RIGHTS as well as everyone who hunts in CA's right to hunt?

Why do you as well as the others on here continue to bash the efforts being made by CHC to work with DFG to bring about some language to be adopted in the F&G Regs that would be beneficial to us?
I can tell ALL of you one thing, If you're not on the united side YOU WILL BE ON THE DIVIDING SIDE OF HOUNDSMEN.
This is exactly what's meant when it's said that the Antis will tear us apart. YOU'VE ALREADY BEGUN TO DO THIS YOURSELVES! They don't really have to anymore. Do you not think they the H$U$, and PETA and the others aren't watching and that they don't see the inability of the hunting community to ORGANIZE AN EFFORT TO GO UP AGAINST THEM?
Well you guys had better get your heads ouot of the sand!!

When the girl stood up from H$U$ yesterday and said she represents 1.3 MILLION people within CA who are AGAINST HUNTING, I ask you IF WE'RE NOT UNITED WHAT KIND OF A CHANCE DO WE HAVE AGAINST THAT KIND OF A MACHINE?


People can't blame those of us who are striving to see implementation of good sound, common sense guidelines get into the regs for hunters.

THEY CAN ONLY BLAME THOSE OF YOU WHO WERE TOO CAUGHT UP IN YOUR OWN SELF CENTERED WAY OF THINKING!

I'm proud to say that I'm doing all that I can for the Houndsmen of CA today AND FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS! How about YOU?

Sincerely Yours
Irv Corbin
Secretary/CHC

[Liz ODell]

Well at this point I have to say I think we have some bigger fish to fry than what my post was originally about. As I said at this point the department is NOT reccomending going to the zones but the very fact that they are getting enough pressure to consider it should make us more than a little alarmed.
Yes, I do have concerns with guides, out of state hunters and going to an 'unlimited' kill system. I personally do not think that I should have to suffer decreased bear hunting opportunities (which would happen under the zone system) because of the greed of some other people. There are a lot of other houndsmen I know that feel the same way, most of us are in the northern part of the state which I think recieves more hunting pressure. However very few of them use the computer, let alone this website.
Yes each individual person can only buy and use one tag but when you have 50, 60, or 70 individual tags being used in one small geographical area it has a very big impact on the population, especially when you are killing a lot sows and sub-adults, in my opinion if you move into a spot and kill until you can't find anything left to kill, well, you just might be a little greedy. If you need clients money so badly that you are willing to run your dogs without nameplates during the deer season (so you supposedly won't get caught for having too many dogs out) you just might be a little greedy.
A lot of people can successfully and ethically hunt small geographical areas for years and not impact the population but when you start to get a lot of pressure from those that only come for the kill/money you can start to have problems.
The way the BMU's are drawn out the 'zone' I live in would encompass a very large area with the fewest tags available...mathmatically that means there would be less tags available for this area as opposed to the amount that would be applying for them.
Anyway, like I said we have bigger fish to fry now, but to bury our head in the sand about the issues I just talked about is the wrong thing to do. For now I am keeping my concerns in mind but moving onto the bigger issue of making sure we can continue to even run hounds here in this state.
I really hope that those who make money off the bear population and those who enjoy our liberal system for out of state hunters will help us out!
I have never felt that DFG is an enemy, by treating them like suspects insead of partners we only further a bad relationship, I do however, sleep with one eye open and treat people with the respect they EARN not the respect they supposedly deserve...

[bvg]

if you have to draw a tag for a zone no more traveling if the bears move out your area or you just to want a change of scenery. I like to try differant country some times.

[hntr4life]

I'm new to this forum and I'm sure glad I found it! It may have saved me some money! I've lived and hunted in CA most of my life(not counting my time in the Army). I live in Mariposa County near Yosemite N.P and along with my two deer tags, I buy a bear tag every year. I've done this for the last 10 yrs or so. In that time I've killed one bear! It's not that they're not out there, it's just that while deer hunting I've only seen one legal bear during legal shooting hours. Every week I get the local paper and in the Sheriff's log there is at least 3-4 calls about a bear causing problems. I guess what I'm getting at is there is no shortage of bear, you almost need dogs to hunt them. I understand there needs to be some law and order, but like some of you I get the feeling that some of these Wardens are just out there to be seen and LOOK busy. Just this season myself and two of my buddies were stopped 3 times by the same Warden in 20 min. and he asked all of us twice to see our liscense and deer tags and checked our rifles both times like he had never seen us before! We decided to turn off the main road after the third time. Maybe if the state hired quality rather than quantity we would't have the problems we're having!! Sorry I got a little off track. The reason I'm on this site is to try and find the good people that I'm sure are around here that might be willing to show me the ropes. I live to hunt and love hounds, but I don't know anyone willing to take a guy out and show him what it's about. I've been looking for breeders and so far I've only found one about 10 hrs away in Redding. There doesn't seem to be many breeders in CA and I'm not too sure about putting a pup in a box and flying it across country. most airlines can't keep track of my damn bag let alone a living, breathing animal! I figure you have to know someone to find a good dog. I know I've been long winded and for that I'm sorry, but I'm very passionate about the life I live and love. I could spend $500 or more for a good dog but if I don't know what I'm doing it's not fair to them. If you can please help. Thanks