Once a crackerjack always a crackerjack?

[catdogs]

Just wondering your opinions....If a dog starts out a crackerjack at a real young age, are they still a great dog throughout their life, or do they sorta fizzle or is it that our expectations are too high because they were such a prodigy early on?

[Mike Leonard]

It has been my expereince barring physical problems or poor handling a dog usually remains adept at the game. Most become more driven and tenacious thru their prime years. I have seen several very good dogs all of a sudden quit treeing or staying treed or coming back off the trail. Now what would you think would cause such behavior?

Well I pondered this until one time when I saw a very good dog treeing on a bear, and he was totally absorbed in tree barking and even watching the bear above him when this big old sort of a do nothing type walker dog slipped up on him and then just dived on him well I was a ways out and it took me a few minuted to get there and kick that dog off of him and then order his master to tie the dog up or I was going to shoot it right there. From that day forward the good dog never treed the same, and in fact if thrown in with a bunch of strange dogs he would not hunt at all. I have also seen hunters gun shy older dogs and mess them up by allowing some idiot to shoot a great big gun close to them while they were treeing or baying game. Can you imagine to a dog's sensitive hearing what it would be like to have some clown pull the tiggeron a 300 Ultra Mag. close to your head. Would really make me want to catch another animal for him to shoot, how about you? So if you see a dog cahnge his behavior and he has had no medical problem you may wish to brainstorm the cause.


I have seen some flash in the pan young dogs that really came on hard for awhile and got everybodies hopes up and then they just sort of blended in when they got a bit older. But usually if they come on and do truely great things you can expect them to just get better if you do your part and expose them enough as well.

[bignblu]

Just wondering your opinions....If a dog starts out a crackerjack at a real young age, are they still a great dog throughout their life, or do they sorta fizzle or is it that our expectations are too high because they were such a prodigy early on?

I beleive that much of the fizzling out is due to its care and handling.
I know one veteran hunter ,whose hounds gradually worsen as they age, thier deterioration blamed on others, but when sold to someone, they seem to improve. A hound needs a houndsman as much as a houndsman needs a hound. Bob Mattscheck

[catdogs]

I have seen several very good dogs all of a sudden quit treeing or staying treed or coming back off the trail. Now what would you think would cause such behavior?

I have seen this too, even had a dog like this. Dog was great for years then about 4-5 years of age was a dud and then goes back to full bore! I have also seen it with other houndsmen and enough to know that it is not always the houndsmen.

[Majestic Tree Hound]

Alot can Do with Ear Infections !! Always keep them Clean and check for Redness !! A Sore Ear can do alot of Things like Treeing or Willing to Hunt .. Just a little thing but part of the Health Issues that Mike was ref. too.

Their was a Guy close to me that went thru the same thing and He just could'nt understand how his Hounds "Nasty, Sour, Caked, Slimmy" ears could change how his Hound Used to be.... LOL

As soon as I watched his Hound leave the Tree with other Hounds Treeing with his Head Cocked Sideways, I knew he was in Great Pain !!

[Borderpond]

I have seen several good dogs that wouldnt tree with strange dogs .I am sure as a result of being nailed at the tree like Mike L wrote about.

I have seen one dog that completely quit hunting and never got back into it.A bluetick breeder in Maine had one of the best young coonhounds I had ever seen. At 6 months old the dog was awesome. He was naturally broke,never trashed.Super fast track dog that many times was treed while the other hounds hadnt left yet.He was a belly rubbing hard hard tree dog. Extremely accurate too, especially by todays standards !! I am sure he was at least 90 something percent accurate. I mean this dog was destined for greatness. I hunted with him several times when he was between 6 and 8 months old and he was as good as they get.

The next time I saw the dog was the following year and he was at a dog jockeys place. I called the former owner and he said at 11 months old he wouldnt tree very good.Then he wouldnt hunt on his own and would just me too behind other dogs. After a while he wouldnt even go with the other dogs and wouldnt show up at the trees.The owner swears the dog just burned out ???? The jockey tried to run him on bear but he never showed any interest. What do you guys think ???

[sourdough]

I have found over the years that dogs that start super early before 6 months hit a wall earlier in their life, Oh they are good dogs and can do a lot of things but never seem to progress to the point of becoming great dogs. I have no idea why, it's just been my observation. I do agree that a few bad experiences at a young age can turn the best prospect in to an average dog or one that won't do anything. Miss use of training collars, tree fighting adults, Over aggressive handler, growly aggressive adult dog, and batted around by rough game can all take the hunt out of a young dog. Some strains of hounds can handle these things at a younger age, but most can't until they are mentaly mature enough to. If your going to get the most out of your young dog then alot of care should go in to it's developement, spending a ton of time with them and seeing their Interaction with your adult dogs will tell you a lot when it comes to their mental toughness. When they are ready there won't be any reverse in them, it will all be forward progress if they were going to do it in the first place.


sourdough

[Trueblue]

Maybe it's possible that burnout can happen from hunting that cracker jack too hard and too often at a young age.

[sheimer]

Maybe it's possible that burnout can happen from hunting that cracker jack too hard and too often at a young age.

I got a pup from Ken Duncan and he warned me of this exact thing. I was so excited about how well he was doing and this was the first thing Ken warned me about. I hunt him no more than a time or two each week. I also think that younger dogs need a little "soak time" between hunts to absorb all that they were exposed to in the previous hunt.

just .02

Scott

[pegleg]

I believe burn out can occur in young hounds when they are hunted to hard and to long as young pups. If a pup is trailing with intensity and treeing when young it can exhaust its self. the hunting behaviors are genetic which means that pup is doing something its breed to do, not something it wants to do. so as it ages if it starts to associate hunting with exhaustion and other unpleasantness it may well avoid it. now once a hound starts to mature and is wanting to hunt because it enjoys it those genetic helpers will go ahead and fire up and you are ahead. This is one of the reasons were warned to keep training exercises brief with all breeds of dog. I have seen this in race horses young colts turning in great times on the practice track during training and the owner/trainer/exerciser wants to see just how fast this horse is so they let it go just a little harder then maybe a little more. well this horse burns out and race day isn't a chance to run unrestricted its just another day that has to be run through. so this horse has lost its heart or desire to really run. This lack of desire is real obvious when the competition is so close and handicapped to even closer tolerances. you may enjoy your job but after a month's worth of 70 hour weeks your exhausted on auto pilot to. I think this usually happens mostly on new or young hunters or sports where the age of the dog is lower.

[twist]

A pup needs to be a pup but once they hit the point where they are wanting to go with the old dogs and are pysically up to making the races they need to go on every hunt they can, they only get better with exposure. In most cases most hunters dont hunt hard enough to wear a dog out that being me also. Yes there are some hunters that truely hunt the feet off thier dogs and a young dog may need to have a lay off for a few days in these conditions but like I said most of us dont hunt hard enough day in and day out to ruin a young dog. Michael Jordon at an early age was a stand out and with many days of practice and play only got better not worse but then Age came along just like in our hounds. later, Andy

[Nolte]

Michael Jordon at an early age was a stand out and with many days of practice and play only got better not worse but then Age came along just like in our hounds. later, Andy

Andy, I don't want to disagree with you on this but Michael Jordon got cut from his BBall team as a sophmore.

I've seen lots of young phenoms seem to peter out when they got older. Or other dogs caught up to them at some point. In a young dog, I want one that shows some gameyness, a natural tendency to tree and tried to work a track. And I would prefer if they aren't all stars at it right off but instread progress each time they get to go. This tells me that they not only have the natural ability but the ability to figure stuff out a bit.

I won't hunt a dog under a year (or in it's first hunting season) overly hard. I usually try to get it some exposure and go from there. Year 2, they get hammered on to see if they are going to cut it.

[twist]

Damn Nolte you do to much research. My point is even if he was cut as a Sophmor 15 yrs of age and young in my standards = roughly(2 yrs in dog age) he was still special at the game at an early age and even better this shows that his many hours of practice payed off and never burned him out, could you imagine if he would have not kept practicing and being exposed to the game what would have happened. It stands to reason the more your dog is hunted the better they should get. later, Andy

[sourdough]

nolte,

well put. I to have had better luck with hounds that progress slower (cold trailing type of hounds) and I should under line the word progress. I have had many pups that one could call a "crackerjack" that stood out at a young age but as I said before the slower progressing type of hounds always tend to pass that "crackerjack". I expect a lot from them by the time they are two years old. I am not saying they should be out doing the older dogs as far as cold trailing but they better be helping out and picking up a few losses. So I guess if we are talking about cold nosed vs hot nosed either type could have what some one would call a "crackerjack" one mans cold nosed dog might be another mans hot nosed dog it's all perspective.

sourdough

[coloradoultramag]

John Wicks books have 1 or 2 chapters on this subject. Its very interesting the corelation between his writing and this post. I think you can burn out a young dog. I had a dog a little over 1 year old following me and an older dog up hill through soft knee to crotch deep snow and I think that could burn out a younger dog. That 4 miles one way chasing a lion would be like 20 miles to a young pup.

I don't want to steal what Wick says about this subject but if you are interested get his books there good.

Anyways good luck

Gabe