Old vs New

[sourdough]

Old vs New

Were the hounds of yesteryear better than today’s hounds?

I am talking Big Game hounds Although Dads dogboy could probably weigh in on this subject when it comes to running dogs as I know his father has many years of breeding behind him and more than their share of catches.

What have the years of hunting big game out west done to the trail hounds of yesteryear?

Are today’s hounds an improvement? Why?

If you could change anything about the hounds of today what would it be?

Would you rather have Grandpa’s hound in your dog box or the ones you have?



sourdough

[Ike]

All great questions sourdough, and I'm gonna sit on the sideline and listen--should be fun!

ike

[Mr.pacojack]

If you are foolish enough to say that the hounds of yesteryear were better, then you or any breeder of today are not doing a very good job.
If you can not better a dog or breed, using the tools we have today ( computer, magizine ads, phone, web sites), then we might as well give up.
But you know they always say horses,dogs and people always become better after they die. I have seen dogs that were not worth the bullet to cull them that have now become famous.

[Powder River Walker]

I would say that the good hounds of yesteryear would be better then the good hounds now. But there weren't as many good hounds before as there is now. Just like anything great out there it isn't the breeding it is a fluke of a dog. The only reason I would say that the hounds of yesteryear that were better then the hounds now is that it took alot of time day in and out to make one and alot more foot miles (not that you can do it over night now or is it easy). And it wasn't as easy for a good hound to be trained, the good ones back then were good because they wanted to be good not because they were trained.

This was a funny topic as I write I find my self on the fence. when I started I was sure that the hounds of yesteryear were better but the more I write the more I find I don't know SH#$. Now I am in an argument with my self.
PRW

[Ike]

If you are foolish enough to say that the hounds of yesteryear were better, then you or any breeder of today are not doing a very good job.
If you can not better a dog or breed, using the tools we have today ( computer, magizine ads, phone, web sites), then we might as well give up.
But you know they always say horses,dogs and people always become better after they die. I have seen dogs that were not worth the bullet to cull them that have now become famous.

X2.....

[Mike Leonard]

I guess there is no way really to quantify this becasue we can't call back any of those old hounds of yesteryear to put them alongside the hounds that are heare now. Some might say well there is that old breeding left around but after all the years you know it isn't excactly the same .

I think I would have to side along with Devin and Dennis on this one i think some our hounds today are probably even better and they use to be. We have the knowledge and ability to be more mobile communicate more and make quality breedings happen. Now then we may as a whole not hunt them as much as some of the guys of yesteryear did and a lot of hunting can make a pretty so so dog do pretty good with experience. In my mind i would sure like to think we are striving for and breeding a better big game hound.


Think about this? We look back at the big game hounds of yesteryear and for the really well known hunters of that time in reality there were not all that many of them. Oh sure there were plenty out behind the barn coon hunters but I am talking about the names that are associated with famous big game dogs of the past. that genetic pool of hounds was probably pretty shallow.

[The Ole' Guy]

I pretty much agree with Mike,although I believe there are way more culls being hunted today than in years past.Far more folks hunting with dogs than there are houndsmen anymore. JMHO

[PIGLET]

For something to talk about, Your all crazy as a s#@!thouse rat. I don't give a crap about breeding, the hounds of yesteryear are three times the dogs we have now. Seasons, bag limits, amount of game and land access of the past made real good houndmen hunt twice as much as today. I could write all day but, as a whole dogs and hunters had more opportunities for good hunting without the hassle of modern civilization. Mike Leonard BS! there werent well known guys because they where not it in for glory like today. i just read an article in nra book that some guy in california killed lions and has more documented kills than ben lilly! Every region has had houndsmen that stay behind the headlines of today. They don't brag they don't need the spotlight but they usually have tremendous hounds. sorry rambling yesteryear by far!

[Catman]

I'm gonna have to agree and disagree For all of us having such good breeding of today ....why is it that we seem to strive to dip into that old blood once in awhile I know there are really good hounds today and I'm sure that some are better than the old days, BUT having said that....seems to me that more and more people today don't want a cold nosed dog. They don't want their dogs trailing two-three day old and uncatchable bears or cats. Seems like alot of folks breed for competition. I'm sure we are capable of breeding better dogs today with all of our technology, but not sure the majority is doing that?

[Benny G]

I would like to think that dogs are getting better, but there are too many variables to generalize like that. I believe that it depends on what you hunt and where you hunt it. With today's technology and communication anything is possible. It's tragic that with all we have today someone with hunting dogs of any sort wouldn't care about breeding. With attitudes like that there will always be dogs just taking up space that, in my opinion, shouldn't even exist. I believe that some of the hunters of old that made names for themselves and their dogs did so because of the time they put into the dogs. It used to be easier to make a living with dogs than it is today. There weren't as many restrictions on hunting as there are today. I guess that my answer would have to be that there are just as good dogs out there today as there used to be, but because of the hobbyists, there might be more sorry dogs than there used to be.

[nmplott]

this is a nature vs. nurture question, there will be a bunch of varied opinions that are all valid. But new dogs derived off of old dogs right? So could it be possible that there really has not been much advancement and they are just consistently the same with added new techniques and technology to make newer dogs appear better if it hasn't truely enhanced the qualities in dogs. Like Ike, I hope that the dogs only getter better with every generation.

[cat and bear]

I think today, or yesterday there was and is good hounds, today, you got a good one, everyone knows through communication, years ago, in general no one did, maybe a few neighbors. In population the competition hunters, have ruined todays dogs noses, the big game hunters keep it going, dipping into the old lines, Time and time again. I wouldn't be surprised if the walker or other breeds, doesnt come to the big game hunters on day for breeding nose again. Even with our gadgets, most of the hunters back then, would have the game killed, before you left the truck. With gps, for you and dogs, radio, truck, road system, choice of breeders, forms like this to teach all of us, training, breeding programs, blood lines, problem solving, if we cant make a dog today, may as well try golfing. LOL

[Redwood Coonhounds]

I think just in the limited amount of time I've been around there are on average a lot more good hounds, a lot fewer good houndsmen, and far less good breeders.

I think restrictions on hunting, land, seasons ect has all had an effect changed the type of hounds we own. The amount of time thats spent hunting them, and culling practices have all had an impact.

There are ups and downs to each, old or new, but I feel our hounds now are suited to the times. I think we are less and less "pack" hunters, and each individual dog has to have independent characteristics to catch game. Most people can't have 15 dogs tied out back. Have to get more from less. At the same time we have created dogs that won't honor other dogs, and become too dependent on one single dog. We have awesome treedogs compared to those of yesteryear, but as we all know we get a lot more tree happy slick treeing dogs. Back in the day I don't ever recall seeing many aggressive dogs (that lived very long), there are far more dog aggressive hounds now, and far less dog aggressive plotts. I think dogs of the past may or may not have had better noses, but they seemed better suited to the area/conditions. Now a lot of folks have warmer nosed dogs that fit the "more catches in less time" philosophy. But in some cases when you don't have the time or area to hunt, thats an improvement not a loss.

Its all a matter of perspective. I think trying to compare them is unfair, as Hunting has changed probably more than the dogs have.

[Brady Davis]

I agree with a lot of what has been said. It's hard to decide; I'd sure like to hope/think that our hounds are getting better. But, there is no real way of knowing how the hounds of yesteryear hunted/acted. If the stories are true that we hear then they probably had more nose than most of our hounds today but then again, those guys could cold trail a lion where ever they wanted without getting on an unwelcoming ranch. Lots of competition guys need hot nosed dogs so they don't range out too far and they get treed quick cause they are hunting small plots of land.

I guess IMO this is a topic no body will have an answer for and probably it'll be divided 50/50...I'm probably divided myself too

One think I do know is we have LOTS of variations and varieties of hounds today and so I beleive there is something out there for every hunter who wants to find a dog that fits HIM....whether it be a hot nosed coon dog or a slow trailing old houndy type or anything inbetween....man, we sure are lucky to have the freedoms and liberties we do to do what suits US and not the next guy!

[bency]

I think the great hounds have become fewer, not due to entirely on breed but much more based on people and the keep up and go mentality to survive in our currant time...and the amount of hound (pet) owners has increased...but I also think society has gotten fat and lazyer, mainly due to the easily accessible materials such as ( computer, magazine ads, phone, web sites), being used as a crutch....In the right hands these materials can make an already phenomenal houndsmen, even better…