And I believe you are right on about coyote removal in those days and higher rabbit populations that did lend themselves to higher bobcat populations. Not to run any of those men or their dogs down, but with the hawks, eagles, owls and coyotes of today the bobcat population will never be what it was back then. Thanks for chiming in!
ike
DRY GROUND HOUNDS? what does it take?
Re: DRY GROUND HOUNDS? what does it take?
if the cat population is in a decline or peak makes a huge difference in how many cats your going to catch. period if there's no game your not going to catch much. if your not targeting one species your not going to catch alot of them either. bobcat can and do make use of that transitional habitat around housing and when you have state land across the fence it helps the numbers rise and stay high. unfortunately some of those areas are just plain impossible to hunt others are pretty good. any area here with a large lion pop. has low bobcat numbers. or maybe the hounds just prefer lion. farm land is a real boon to bobcat numbers to and prey animals really soar along alfalfa fields etc. I don't catch 200 bobcat a year and never said I did so I am not real sure why that number is coming up maybe typical houndsmen exaggeration. you can hunt bobcat easier and longer in most areas then lion and it sure helps them when you are running lion and the only reason i see for keeping your hounds from running bobcat is if your a lion guide
-
Ike
Re: DRY GROUND HOUNDS? what does it take?
Where I live we have a ninety day bobcat season and a yearlong lion season, granted the lions are thin but I can usually find a track for the dogs to bark at if I'm in the mood. I realize that some states have no season and no limits but that isn't the way it is here. Lots of the dog trainers around here utilize the bobcats as a training tool for pups they are bringing along, and I've used those for the same reasons for dogs I was starting and going to keep, but like I say for the most part I don't hunt them much....even forgot to buy tags this past winter!
ike
ike
Re: DRY GROUND HOUNDS? what does it take?
Been running bobcats for a long time and I believe it is easier for a dog to catch a lion than a bobcat. There may be houndsmen out here that may be running them to try and train pups but they sure are not checking any hides in. Two years ago I averaged around $400 per hide. Last year around $200. Bobcat tags are $5 + your furbearers licence. With a 4 tag limit I dont think anyone is going to leave one sitting in a tree especially with the trappers consistantly limiting out. Fact is they are just hard to catch out here. When you do catch them it seems easy, but the majority of the time they head straight for the ledges, a rock pile or the nastiest place they can find. Then they spend the rest of the day going round and round. One things for sure, they will make a dog work.
-
Roy Sparks
- Bawl Mouth
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:00 pm
- Location: Eastern Cape - Republic of South Africa
- Facebook ID: 100007420332603
Roy Sparks - My take on what it takes.
I think whats important as much as the potential ability of the hound, is the ability of the houndsman and handler.
Some guys just never going to have what it takes to get the best out of their hound.The hardest part of this is the guy is probably madly passionate about hunting with hounds.
Dry ground hunting ( or any form of cold trailing ) is for diligent and patient houndsmen and really well bred hounds from old proven strains. If you have the hound hunting savvy your short route is to aquire your hounds from the correct sources from the start.
If you have a number of finnished hounds this will help getting you started. A good knowlege of the prey item's habits and habitat. Dont always depend on cutting a track on a road on the dirt or snow or rigging. If you cant strike like that then you ought to be able to penetrate likely habitat with your solid hounds hunting to locate a trail.You can cut in your younger hounds when the older dogs start lining out properly.When you cant hunt lion or you finding it difficult to locate a trail often enough, go and hunt bobcat or lynx.
Our hounds hunt lots of lynx and often. They loose more than they catch but we stick to this work and do it as often as we can, this brings out the best desired traits in my leopard hounds. This is the essence of their development.Exposing them to difficult prey to track as often as possible. I dont call my hounds off a difficult lynx track even when I can see the outcome will be negative. We work alongside them encouraging them on till they loose the trail completely.Fortunately they catch enough to keep them very enthusiastic and this brings out the desire to finnish. I hardly shoot a treed lynx but rather let the hounds enjoy the treeing for a good while then we jump it out and allow the hounds to catch and finnish the cat.
When these hounds get to hunt a leopard it looks like childs play compared to trailing a lynx. Yes we do sometimes make looses and dont finnish. But we have trailed a traveling cat from 4 am and then put him in a cave after dark quite often. When this happens we dont turn our backs on that leopard though. If he's in there , my policy is the hounds have done their part we got to finnish for them.We always go prepared for this as most leopard we hunt choose caves as a refuge. On go the led headlights and in we go and get that cat dead. Sometimes this goes into the next day , but that cat will come out ready for skinning.
The best place for hounds to develope is on the trail and the more chance you give them to do what they bred for the happier they will be and you'll be smiling more often.
If you dont have a line in the water you not going to catch any fish.
Get out there and hunt.
Roy Sparks.
Some guys just never going to have what it takes to get the best out of their hound.The hardest part of this is the guy is probably madly passionate about hunting with hounds.
Dry ground hunting ( or any form of cold trailing ) is for diligent and patient houndsmen and really well bred hounds from old proven strains. If you have the hound hunting savvy your short route is to aquire your hounds from the correct sources from the start.
If you have a number of finnished hounds this will help getting you started. A good knowlege of the prey item's habits and habitat. Dont always depend on cutting a track on a road on the dirt or snow or rigging. If you cant strike like that then you ought to be able to penetrate likely habitat with your solid hounds hunting to locate a trail.You can cut in your younger hounds when the older dogs start lining out properly.When you cant hunt lion or you finding it difficult to locate a trail often enough, go and hunt bobcat or lynx.
Our hounds hunt lots of lynx and often. They loose more than they catch but we stick to this work and do it as often as we can, this brings out the best desired traits in my leopard hounds. This is the essence of their development.Exposing them to difficult prey to track as often as possible. I dont call my hounds off a difficult lynx track even when I can see the outcome will be negative. We work alongside them encouraging them on till they loose the trail completely.Fortunately they catch enough to keep them very enthusiastic and this brings out the desire to finnish. I hardly shoot a treed lynx but rather let the hounds enjoy the treeing for a good while then we jump it out and allow the hounds to catch and finnish the cat.
When these hounds get to hunt a leopard it looks like childs play compared to trailing a lynx. Yes we do sometimes make looses and dont finnish. But we have trailed a traveling cat from 4 am and then put him in a cave after dark quite often. When this happens we dont turn our backs on that leopard though. If he's in there , my policy is the hounds have done their part we got to finnish for them.We always go prepared for this as most leopard we hunt choose caves as a refuge. On go the led headlights and in we go and get that cat dead. Sometimes this goes into the next day , but that cat will come out ready for skinning.
The best place for hounds to develope is on the trail and the more chance you give them to do what they bred for the happier they will be and you'll be smiling more often.
If you dont have a line in the water you not going to catch any fish.
Get out there and hunt.
Roy Sparks.
-
Tim Pittman
- Open Mouth
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:47 am
- Location: oregon
- Location: creswell,oregon
- Contact:
Re: DRY GROUND HOUNDS? what does it take?
This is an interesting topic and in some ways don't feel like i'm the fellow in the know but have to agree with pretty much all of you. I live up here in nw montana and most years have pretty decent snow conditions during the legal chase season of dec to april. This year the snow hasn't been here, and there has been some tough conditions, but I have been fortunate enough to have a pack of hounds that don't care what the weather is like. All they know is we are looking for cats. I totally agree with andy however and others who have mentioned the fact that bad snow ice and huge temperature swings and humidity swings create some of the hardest hunting i've ever done. My odds go greatly down in these type of early spring like condition but get better with either dry dirt or good snow. But the key is already been stated. In my experience take them to the woods in all conditions. Don't count their success only by how much fur you see. Work as hard as they do. Don't just turn out on pop up races and teach them to get impatient and lazy. But mostly completely finish and trash brake your dogs. A lot of folks that are used to lining out their dogs on tracks, try to run the dirt with little success because all they ever get started are hooved critter races. If you start with quality genetics, break them off of off game, keep them in the woods in all condition, then a smart dog will put it all together and make it happen for you. just my experience 